Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[rockstarbassist]

I'm sure that a couple of 12's and a 10 + 2 tweeters would make for a very strong gigging combination. Let us know how it turns out live, likes and dislikes if there are some.

Once I'm financially able to do a focus "slave" amp in addition to the focus1, so that we can run two cabinets without thinking about if the original Focus 1A can run two ohms reliably, I will, unless Jorg comes up with a UL version of the 410 or 21012 where the cabinet will weigh in at say under 55ish pounds, try to work out a deal to get a 1212 and sell the 410. That would give me a modular system capable of filling literally any venue, with 1200-1400 watts at a 2 ohm load (600 at 4), weighing in at a total of about 110ish pounds.

Not bad.

For those more physically fit than I am which is likely 98% of the bass playing world under 60 years old!!!, the 410, with casters and a little help from your friends, is not a terrible thing schlepp wise....but, in my case combining the I load it, unload it, load it, unload it every gig with no help from anyone, my fairly sensitive back, and my not being in shape nearly to my liking, I just gotta be very selective. At least it's not an awkward cabinet....I mean 23 x 23 x 16 is much easier to manage at 78 pounds than the typical 410 of similar weight. Like I said, I waiting for the day when Jorg can show us a UL equivalent.....but, can, with money in pocket, go to a modular system and not break one's back currently.

LKaye

LKaye

+11 on waiting on some sort of "UL" cab from Jorg...

310212's for EVERYone!!

 

[SnoMan]

+11 on waiting on some sort of "UL" cab from Jorg...

310212's for EVERYone!!

For what it is...I think I would call the 310212 an UL as is....

 

[Brian Barrett]

+11 on waiting on some sort of "UL" cab from Jorg...

310212's for EVERYone!!

 

[jerry]

For size/sound, I always considered Jorg's cabs sorta-kinda ULs anyway My Mini 12's are about the same weight as the Epifani UL 12's.

 

[SnoMan]

Careful brian....

You're gonna make us think that you know something that we don't....

 

[Biker4Him]

Hey Brian...

I hope you can answer this.. forum rules and all..

but what's the eta on the G**tar cab's? I think the band is going to be all Schroeder.. all the time!!

 

[Brian Barrett]

Hey Brian...

I hope you can answer this.. forum rules and all..

but what's the eta on the G**tar cab's? I think the band is going to be all Schroeder.. all the time!!

The Guitar Cabs are being built by custom order at the moment. But they are available.




Snoman

now I can't give out information like that....... but they will still retain the bottom which most UL's don't........

 

[SnoMan]

what?

I didn't hear anything.


Just the wind.......

 

[rockstarbassist]

The Guitar Cabs are being built by custom order at the moment. But they are available.




Snoman

now I can't give out information like that....... but they will still retain the bottom which most UL's don't........

Ok, yeah... I'm officially waiting now.

(Brian- I should be ordering a cover for my 1210 from you this coming week!)

 

[Brian Barrett]

Don't hold your breath quite yet....... but the water could be rising .....

 

[Crockettnj]

does the 21012 occupy the same area as the 410?



Tonally and volume wise, whats the mains difference here?



can someone do a quick compare and contrast on these 2 in terms of use for 4 string live bass, mostly classic rock/skynyrd-esque stuff in small outdoor gigs with no PA support for bass?


I read the thread, but you have to admit, it's INSANEly huge!
hoping for a recap on this issue.

thanks!

 

[Larry Kaye]

the 410 and 21012 are the exact same size cabinets. Their weight is similar I believe in the mid/hi 70 pounds. I would "suggest" for your application that you purchase the 410. It projects plenty of bottom end yet every note is punchy and clear. With a 4 stringer, why bother looking for more a lower frequency response (35 hz with the 21012 vs 40 with the 410). It's likely in smaller outdoor gigs to not make a difference.

This past summer I played two of the gigs you described, granted with a five string, but hear me out....both gigs were with an 8 piece horn band that is anything but quiet. I had no PA support on either gig...I used the 1210 on one and the 410 on the other. With enough clean wattage, you may find the 1210 or 1212 "loud enough" for your needs without bearing the extra expense and schlepp or the 410. However the 410 on the second gig described above was "killer" That gig was exactly how you described your's were, smaller to medium sized outdoor venue, this one had about 250-300 people at any one time listening, we were playing in an open tent towards a brick school building. I had compliments from 4 different bass players on the tone.....all thought I had PA support and of course, I didn't.

The other gig was in an open tent facing towards a home with about a guest count of 150. The 1210 REALLY sounded nice. It was perfect acoustics...no echo, just enough liveliness so it didn't suck up too much bottom or highs...my stuff just sounded outrageously nice.

The 21012 and this is just my opinion is more for the 4 or 5 stringer who's looking for a heavier, rounder bottom end and a little less punch. Based on what you said your band's style was, size of venues, and you're using a 4 string, I'd recommend a 410. There's a couple on talkbass.com for less than retail.

Lkaye

 

[Crockettnj]

I could NOT have gotten a more relevant and useful response.

thank you very much.

 

[Metal Mitch]

The 21012 and this is just my opinion is more for the 4 or 5 stringer who's looking for a heavier, rounder bottom end and a little less punch.

Larry, have you heard one? I got one last week. It may be rounder than the 410 but I wouldn't call it round.

When I think of a round sound, I think 2x15. This doesn't sound anything like that.

It has a deep bottom but it's a thin deep sound. Reminds me of the keel of a big ship. Like a big blade cutting deeply through the water. I'm guessing the bump is at about 20Hz, because I tried rolling off the deep bass to get a fuller sound. My 40Hz SVP-PRO bass control couldn't touch it, and the 30Hz slider on my MXR EQ couldn't either. There's a big gap between about 20Hz and 200Hz where there's no mid-bass or high bass to fatten it up.

Now this could certainly be by design. The unusual voicing makes the bass very clear and audible to the ear. But I wouldn't call it round by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Larry Kaye]

I'm basing this opinion on comparing how the 1210 and 410 "sound" and how both Jorg and what I've heard from the Low End and the dealer in LA I bought the 410 from. My 1210 is bassier than the 410 at the same settings. One of the reasons I "don't like any amps out there" by themselves, or preamps so far I've used, is that they don't have enough adjustability to find that frequencies or more like group of frequencies that make my tone happen. That's why I use a 31 band eq between my bass and the amp head.

If you have nothing to work with between 20-and 200 hz, or if you're limited to 20, 30, and 40, but don't have 60-125, I can understand how you have the front of a cruise ship type of sound. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you used my bass, head, and eq, and a 21012 and compared it to a 410, it would be more bottomy and less punchy at the same volume levels. I feel that 12's are "round" enough sounding. Everyone's got their own opinion. What bass are you using with the 21012 MetalMan.

What choices do you have other than 20 30 and 40 hz between 40 and 200 hz for boosting and/or cutting?

Do you like the cabinet? I just feel that if you think the 20-200 ship is empty with a 21012, why do you feel it would be fuller with a 410?

L

 

[Metal Mitch]

My 1210 is bassier than the 410 at the same settings.

I'm sure it is!

One of the reasons I "don't like any amps out there" by themselves, or preamps so far I've used, is that they don't have enough adjustability to find that frequencies or more like group of frequencies that make my tone happen. That's why I use a 31 band eq between my bass and the amp head.

If you have nothing to work with between 20-and 200 hz, or if you're limited to 20, 30, and 40, but don't have 60-125, I can understand how you have the front of a cruise ship type of sound. I can pretty much guarantee you that if you used my bass, head, and eq, and a 21012 and compared it to a 410, it would be more bottomy and less punchy at the same volume levels. I feel that 12's are "round" enough sounding. Everyone's got their own opinion. What bass are you using with the 21012 MetalMan.

What choices do you have other than 20 30 and 40 hz between 40 and 200 hz for boosting and/or cutting?

I have 2 EQ's available but I started out straight into the pre just to see what the cab does... and normally I run the SVP with the EQ off. IME cut always sounds better than boost, and it was just an experiment to wring out more mid/high bass without boosting EQ. 30 and 40 are the 2 lowest bands I have.

So far I've only been using the Jackson and the BCR. Haven't tried the P or SR yet. I also have a SS amp I can try.

Do you like the cabinet? I just feel that if you think the 20-200 ship is empty with a 21012, why do you feel it would be fuller with a 410?
L

I didn't say anything about the 410 being fuller...

Honestly, I'm still not sure if I like it. I've never played through a cab like this before. I'm hearing things much more clearly in my signal chain, as well as detail and texture and a low mid voicing I've never heard before. I'm also *not* hearing things I'm used to hearing - things like boominess and mud.

I haven't had a chance to take it out of the house yet, and at home I've been spending more time tweaking than playing. Which is a bad thing. But the more I tweak, the closer I get back to my "normal" settings, so I think there's an ear adjustment curve happening. If I tried it before buying it I probably wouldn't have pulled the trigger. The 10's are just way too bright, although they do blend in much better (and the tone gets rounder) about 15 feet away from the cab. I'd very much like to hear the 1212 just because it has no 10's.

Do you think Jorg would ever build a 412?

 

[rockstarbassist]

Wait til you get a Schro out on the job... None of this "can barely hear this" and "kinda wish I could hear this nuance" will matter- cause it'll open up like you've never heard a cab do!
Rawk!

 

[Biker4Him]

I haven't had a chance to take it out of the house yet,

Wait until you use it live... that's where all the magic happens. (At least it did for me)

Do you think Jorg would ever build a 412?

Well. he kind of does.. its a modular system though... 2 1212 cabs.

 

[Larry Kaye]

MetalMitch....

1. I 100% agree with the others here that state taking out on the gig is the real test rather than in your typical home/practice venue.

2. Everyone has their own definition of terms like brightness, fullness, roundness etc. etc. I don't find 10's too "bright" per my definition. I like to have a treble edge on my sound and considering that I play almost exclusively finger style, I think it's pretty cool to have the percussiveness without the brittleness you tend to get with other tweetered cabs in this similar price range. I pretty much crank the highs on my bass push but not crank them on my eq, and set the cabinet flat.

I run the very lows 40 and below totally cut/off...the cabinet don't respond to those slides anyway except to create some ambient rumble and extra cone excursion which just adds mudiness and quicker farting out. The 40 to 80 range I run flat, 80 through 160? I run slightly boosted, 200 through 500 I run flat, 500-1000ish I run slightly cut, and 2000-the top I run boosted about 4 dbs.

My strings are old and somewhat dead but it still sounds great!! The 1210 covers rooms I'm playing up to around 3000 Sq ft. The 410 covers rooms with wicked acoustics in this same range I feel better than the 1210, but doesn't sound as nice as the 1210 where the acoustics are super/excellent.

The 410 will cover a large room or venue with ease but the 21012 will, according to all I've been directly told, deliver more bottom end and sound less punchy or "bright"? perhaps, in your terms, doing so. My 1210 is just as "bright" as my 410 per MY definition, but it is fuller sounding/rounder per my definition too. Both cabinets have their place. I'm just happy to for the interim be able to afford having two one cabinet solutions that covers all gigs I currently play.

Keep in mind that even if you take the cabinet out to several jobs that there is always a chance that you will not like how it sounds. What many of us who have purchased Jorg's cabinets have found out is it's not only different but "better" sounding than what we used in the past....However, there have been a few who find different to not be better.

Good luck and hope that your live experience with the 21012 all works out to your satisfaction.

Lkaye

 

[Metal Mitch]

MetalMitch....

1. I 100% agree with the others here that state taking out on the gig is the real test rather than in your typical home/practice venue.

I agree 100%, and I've always applied that test to ANY cabinet.

2. Everyone has their own definition of terms like brightness, fullness, roundness etc. etc. I don't find 10's too "bright" per my definition. I like to have a treble edge on my sound and considering that I play almost exclusively finger style, I think it's pretty cool to have the percussiveness without the brittleness you tend to get with other tweetered cabs in this similar price range. I pretty much crank the highs on my bass push but not crank them on my eq, and set the cabinet flat.

I've played through plenty of 10's before, just not this bright. I also play fingerstyle but with distortion - I assume you don't use that?... so I go for the more low mid / high bass bump than the treble.

I run the very lows 40 and below totally cut/off...the cabinet don't respond to those slides anyway except to create some ambient rumble and extra cone excursion which just adds mudiness and quicker farting out. The 40 to 80 range I run flat, 80 through 160? I run slightly boosted, 200 through 500 I run flat, 500-1000ish I run slightly cut, and 2000-the top I run boosted about 4 dbs.

Yep, done it with EQ and also the filtering on the QSC to tighten up cabs. But it's tough when I'm tuned to down to B flat, I need to turn off the filter. So far the Schroeder has laughed at extreme EQ settings that would choke the life out of any other cabinet I've tried. But that was at low volume with gobs of headroom... I'll see what happens when I crank it.

My strings are old and somewhat dead but it still sounds great!

Try some new steel rounds with distortion and you'll get a better idea what I'm hearing. word of caution - disengage tweety before engaging distortion.

Thanks very much for all the replies man.

Also wanted to let you know that tonight 2 things made up my mind to keep it. I got it up off the floor, which was interesting. Then plugged my old cabs back in. They sounded dull and boomy compared to the Schro. I'm wrecked, I can't go back...

So I'm actually thinking of selling all my other cabs and get a 1212. I could keep both for different gigs, or if I really like the 1212 that much better I could always sell the 21012 and get the other 1212.