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The Official Reeves Bass Amp Thread
- Thread starter SactoBass
- Start date
Other than the aesthetics of having a head wider than the cab, it sounds great. I’m lousy at describing “sounds” and differences in sounds but it is really nice out of all the BF cabs I’ve tried it with.
Tim
My C225 hangs over the sides about 2” with the Aguilar GS112s. I had to move the feet in an inch.
Added extra handles to the top of mine.
There is a HiWatt MaxWatt B410 Cabinet available local to me, was thinking about grabbing it to put under my C225. Might look cool.
My understanding is that these were a budget series of cabinets made in Asia that were discontinued, Not the super expensive cabs out of the UK. Does anyone know anything about these or has anyone played one? I've searched, and there is minimal info around on these.
Thanks.
My understanding is that these were a budget series of cabinets made in Asia that were discontinued, Not the super expensive cabs out of the UK. Does anyone know anything about these or has anyone played one? I've searched, and there is minimal info around on these.
Thanks.
Can you explain the tone stack's "interactive" and the negative feedback concept?
NOTE: The Treble, Mid and Bass controls are highly interactive and altering one control
can change the way the other two behave.
Presence Control: Adds higher frequencies to the guitar tone by altering the negative
feedback. Turning the knob clockwise adds edge, creating crispness and bite.
NOTE: The Treble, Mid and Bass controls are highly interactive and altering one control
can change the way the other two behave.
Presence Control: Adds higher frequencies to the guitar tone by altering the negative
feedback. Turning the knob clockwise adds edge, creating crispness and bite.
At full CCW the Presence control allows maximum feedback from the power amp to the preamp. This cuts high frequencies, reduces distortion, and makes the sound more controlled. As you rotate the control, CW feedback is reduced.
The Presence control can be used to modulate how the amp behaves when pushed into distortion. The feedback is used to reduce distortion, but when the amp is pushed over the edge, I believe the feedback loop collapses. So if a lot of feedback is used, the transition from clean to distorted will not be very graceful.
In my experience Hiwatt output sections don't sound particularly good when pushed into distortion. These amps are setup to produce the max clean power possible. I have a Hylight era DR103 and DR201 and normally run the Presence control between 10 and 2 o'clock. These amps would be among my last choice if I wanted the sound of a driven output tubes. I also have a Reeve 400. I suspect the results of pushing the output tubes would be similar, but it is too powerful to push into distortion without putting my speakers at risk.
The Hiwatt tone stack is essentially a modified Fender tone stack. A few added components changes the operation of the circuit a bit...the bass and mid control actually flip places in the circuit. The component values determine bandwidth and frequency centers, which are factors that determine how much interaction there is between the controls. The controls are interactive for sure, but I am not sure I would say "highly interactive" as both Hiwatt and Fender tone tone stacks tend to be pretty well sorted IMHO. Hiwatts are definitely voiced a lot different than Fenders, but some of the differences are not attributable to the changes in their tone stacks.
I have an Ashdown CTM300 and Small Block 427. The designer of these amps intended for the tone controls to be highly interactive...these amps sound drastically different from one another. They are awesome sounding amps, but to be honest, I find the tone controls to be a bit frustrating and counter intuitive, and I would call them "highly interactive." Pretty sure they are basically Fender tone stacks with modified component values...much truer to Fender than the Hiwatt circuit. My Orange AD200B also uses a Fender tone stack. It's not capable of generating as many sounds as the Ashdowns, but it is super easy to dial in because the controls are set up to function more intuitively. Sounds and behaves like a big Showman to me.
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Interesting thread here. Please forgive my ignorance in advance, but I thought that earlier Marshalls were, to some extent, clones of the white Bassman circuit. I would not have guessed that the Hiwatt tone stack would share that heritage.
I never used a Showman (though I lusted for one in the 60s). But I'm still surprised that you say the AD200 sounds like a big Showman. Was (is) the Showman head equally fat & gooey?
Thanks!
I have a Marshall 2203 and 1959. The tone stacks are laid out just like a Fender tone stack.
You might enjoy this page. TMB Tone Stack
Here is the Hiwatt tone stack...notices the similarity, added components, and the inversion of the bass and middle controls.
Let me qualify my comments on the AD200B. If you set the amp up to run clean, it sounds a lot like a big Showman. In other words, set the AD200B's Master wide open and run the amp clean. I believe you would find the AD200B has a bit of a scoop in the low mids if you were to do an analysis of it's frequency response. I think it sounds quite nice, but does not have the strong low mids of an SVT.
Go nuts with the Gain and the AD200B quickly goes places a Showman was never meant to go.
Cool! Thanks!
When I look at those schematics, it reminds me that I hope to make an effort to actually study those concepts enough to acquire a basic understandings of them. Once I retire. When I'll also buy a basic Moog to program and take some serous guitar lessons. When I retire....
Thankfully my Hiwatt only has bass and treble controls so I don't have to get all confused with that mid-range control.
When I look at those schematics, it reminds me that I hope to make an effort to actually study those concepts enough to acquire a basic understandings of them. Once I retire. When I'll also buy a basic Moog to program and take some serous guitar lessons. When I retire....
Thankfully my Hiwatt only has bass and treble controls so I don't have to get all confused with that mid-range control.
Thank You! I kinda understand it. At least the presence control part.
.
Hi Reeves owners,
Does anyone have direct experience ABing the Reeves 225 against a vintage Hiwatt DR201? How much different do they sound? Do the Partridge transformers make a difference?
I'm looking to buy a Reeves, or wondering if I should save up for an actual DR201? Or as a third option a Hiwatt 200 slave and use my preamp of choice? I know this thread might be biased but just wanted an honest opinion, because either amp is a heck of an investment.
Thanks
Does anyone have direct experience ABing the Reeves 225 against a vintage Hiwatt DR201? How much different do they sound? Do the Partridge transformers make a difference?
I'm looking to buy a Reeves, or wondering if I should save up for an actual DR201? Or as a third option a Hiwatt 200 slave and use my preamp of choice? I know this thread might be biased but just wanted an honest opinion, because either amp is a heck of an investment.
Thanks
Here is my experience: if there is a difference, it’s subtle enough that you would never hear it in a live or studio mix. I love my Reeves 225!
I have a Reeves 400, 76 Hiwatt DR201, and a 79 DR103. I have the version of the DR201 that runs six EL34s. IMHO, the voicing of all three amps is very similar, but the Reeves is a bit smoother and softer in the high mids, and bit bigger and tighter in the low end. The scaling of the tone controls is a bit different, so the settings are not exactly same. I would say my DR201 is the hardest and least compressed of the three. I did some tube rolling to mellow it out a bit. I would describe these amps as warm for guitar, but a bit scooped and bright for bass. They are very HiFi sounding, but also fairly heavily voiced IMHO.
The KT88 DR201 are a bit more rare and tend to go for considerably more money than EL34 based amps. I believe the KT88 based amps make about 225 watts and the EL34 version makes about 190Ws. Not really a noticeable difference in volume, but various people suggest the lows are a bit fuller on the KT88 version.
I think the decision really comes down to whether you want a new amp that has been slightly modernized/tailored for bass, or a vintage classic.
I believe HiTone clones are a bit closer to the original Hiwatt circuits...this is not good or bad, and Reeves does not actually stray very far from the originals as far as I know.
HT200 DR - Hi-tone Amplification
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@donahue I spent some serious A/B time with this setup;
As has been mentioned, the amps are very similar. My gigging C225 is actually built on a British DR201 chassis, in fact in the very early days, all Reeves Amps were simply re-badged British Hiwatts.
The first "Reeves" I gigged was a UK Hiwatt DR201 that said "Reeves" on it.
A little digging on this sight will yield the whole story, however the reason the Reeves C225 came to be was that the Reeves people, who at the time were switching production to their US facilities, asked what I thought about the UK 200 watter. They saw a niche, and were curious as to what I might do differently.
A DR201 is a wonderful bass amp, don't need to belabor that aspect, it's been covered in this thread alone ad infinitum.
My #1 was the unwieldy size. As you can see by the above photo the C225, in the modern world of smaller, bass specific cabs is a more manageable, more aesthetically pleasing 24" wide.
#2 was big bottom. The original Dave Reeves circuit was designated "AP", which means "All Purpose", which translates to an amp that simply and accurately amplifies the signal fed to it. This the amp does marvelously, and truthfully that full big clean is really where the money is, however to attain that goal at high volume the circuit is somewhat restricted from it full raging potential.
One of these restrictions is the above mentioned negative feedback loop, which indeed is somewhat controlled by the presence control, however is still a strong control even with the presence rolled back. This is not a bad thing, but in the interest of "loud clean" it does restrict the amp, particularly at the ends of the frequency response.
The C225 is "opened up" a bit. The feedback loop is one of the contributing factors is where the C225's almost unusably huge bottom end and higher overall output comes from, and I suspect also why the amp gets described as "scooped".
It really isn't, the tone stack just needs to be attenuated to be brought back to the response profile of a DR201.
#3 is modern touring convenience. This was an input pad and a transformer fed DI. In the day of the DR201 there were no active basses, and if there was any FOH SR, rigs were mic'ed.
Hope this helps!
@edbass Great post!
My understanding is the EQ is tweaked slightly on the Reeves to make the amp better for bass. I have never seen any comments that explain exactly what this means though...I assumed it was a bit more than just the presence control. I think the tone and feel of my Reeves 400 is probably slightly closer to my DR103 than my DR201...but they are all very close. The 400 is slightly easier to dial in and definitely a bit bigger sounding. I believe the same is true if you compare a Reeves 400 to a Reeves 225 though.
Regarding the Reeve's input pad. The DR201 has padded and normal inputs as well, but uses 4 input jacks instead of a DPDT switch and two jacks. Since the Reeves is slightly tailored for bass, I am actually somewhat surprised the Brilliant channel was retained. My perception is the Brilliant channel is intended for guitar, and a 400W, or even 225W guitar amp is pretty insane. With the four input jacks you can jumper the inputs and run both channels simultaneously if you like. I actually find this very useful on my Marshall Super Lead, but haven't found the need on my Hiwatts. So far I have never used the Brilliant channel with bass or guitar. I don't think the channel would be useable at sane volume levels on even my DR103.
My comment on scooped was not particular to the Reeves. I think Hiwatt circuits in general have a baked in mid-scoop that can not be dialed out. This is not good or bad, it's sort of the nature of the beast that a player will either like or not. I do think the characteristic EQ curve is one of the reasons the amps are perceived as HiFi. I don't think most Ampeg SVT aficionados will care for it. SVT and Hiwatt have two very different sonic profiles IMHO. SVTs can be dialed in very close to flat.
The one update I wished Reeves had done...using speakON instead of 1/4" speaker jacks. I bought my Reeves 400 from another TB member. If I were to buy a new amp from Reeves, I would ask if they would be willing to install speakON connectors.
My understanding is the EQ is tweaked slightly on the Reeves to make the amp better for bass. I have never seen any comments that explain exactly what this means though...I assumed it was a bit more than just the presence control. I think the tone and feel of my Reeves 400 is probably slightly closer to my DR103 than my DR201...but they are all very close. The 400 is slightly easier to dial in and definitely a bit bigger sounding. I believe the same is true if you compare a Reeves 400 to a Reeves 225 though.
Regarding the Reeve's input pad. The DR201 has padded and normal inputs as well, but uses 4 input jacks instead of a DPDT switch and two jacks. Since the Reeves is slightly tailored for bass, I am actually somewhat surprised the Brilliant channel was retained. My perception is the Brilliant channel is intended for guitar, and a 400W, or even 225W guitar amp is pretty insane. With the four input jacks you can jumper the inputs and run both channels simultaneously if you like. I actually find this very useful on my Marshall Super Lead, but haven't found the need on my Hiwatts. So far I have never used the Brilliant channel with bass or guitar. I don't think the channel would be useable at sane volume levels on even my DR103.
My comment on scooped was not particular to the Reeves. I think Hiwatt circuits in general have a baked in mid-scoop that can not be dialed out. This is not good or bad, it's sort of the nature of the beast that a player will either like or not. I do think the characteristic EQ curve is one of the reasons the amps are perceived as HiFi. I don't think most Ampeg SVT aficionados will care for it. SVT and Hiwatt have two very different sonic profiles IMHO. SVTs can be dialed in very close to flat.
The one update I wished Reeves had done...using speakON instead of 1/4" speaker jacks. I bought my Reeves 400 from another TB member. If I were to buy a new amp from Reeves, I would ask if they would be willing to install speakON connectors.
