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Double Bass Upright Intonation

#81
I know what I said previously in this thread and elsewhere, but I'm crazy impressed by the TC Electronics Polytuner. This thing is way ahead of the pack as an instrument tuner. It picks out pitches quickly and accurately like I've never seen before. Good enough that it can be applied to working on pitch and I'm getting really great results. I should mention that both my basses are fairly resonant so it helps to give it some strong signals to work with, I'm guessing.

So the way I'm using it now is to combine the feedback I'm getting from the Polytuner to train my body and ears to reproduce and expect the necessary sounds BEFORE I'm playing it. To me, still very much inline with what Damon is writing above. IMO, it's about allowing the bass and the feedback your'e being given (aurally and through the tuner) to reprogram your body and expectations as to how things sound. It should involve as many senses as possible (visual, tactile (through both physic location on the neck and the vibration from the string, and auditory). The idea would be allow this feedback to inform the body (not the mind) of how the intonation should sound. Relaxation is key as you let this happen.
 
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#82
A tuner is an incredible tool for us. A reality check can never be bad thing! I maintain that fine tuning is the wrong step to take if you are still not able to hold your position. A quick check to hear the exact notes you are working on and back to building a functioning position is probably still best for the beginner.

Remember, the most important question here is whether you can't hear it, or can't pay it - or some combination of both. Each person needs to honestly answer that question and attack the weak spot.
 
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#83
Huy Nguyen said:
* Also be careful with any habits of looking at your hands. Don't look at them. As John Clayton said in a clinic I was at once, "What are you looking for? There's nothing to see".
Click to expand...

Great thread!!


As a somewhat newbie on URB, I look too much at my hands, for sure. BUT, at this point it helps me stay (more) in tune. Plus helps me keep what little technique I have consistant as my hands get tired on gigs. I do work on not looking, but need to work more at it.

As far as that quote, my response would have been "Well, I got eyes and might as well use them, when I'm able to, to try and stay (more) in tune than if I wasn't looking at my hands."*

A great player/teacher told me a student at an Edgar Meyer master class asked why he had lines on his fingerboard. Edgar answered something along the lines of "Because I like to play in tune." Same teacher told me that in orchestras the bass players often look at their hand position to make sure they are in tune as it's hard to hear oneself playing bass in an orchestra setting. After playing a few seasons in a community orchestra, I can confirm that it's quite difficult to hear your bass! The bass player next to me I hear just fine. Me? Not so much.*



*Admittedly both remarks that shouldn't be construed as saying you shouldn't be able to play without looking at your hands. But I need, at the least, I little peeksy every now and again.
 
#85
Looking at the hands will certainly not get you in tune - it will help you build a solid position. Working on intonation with a solid position is more versatile lasting solution.
What I maintain is true tone deaf people who are attracted to the double bass are an extreme rarity.
The second truth is that the left hand position being a natural and easy thing to for a person work out is just as rare.

So, the best first step is to address the hand. The next 100 steps are ALL the ear-based exercises recommended in this thread.
Once your hand is able hold a position and make tiny adjustments you are not done - that is when you start! You are never done.
 
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#86
Here's a sample shifting exercise to improve intonation I use with my students.
ShiftingExercise.jpg
 

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#87
I haven't seen anyone mention using backing tracks (Jamey Aebersold, etc) as an aid to improve intonation. I always practice with backing tracks or an app. I've been using the IReal Pro app on my IPhone lately to play along with standards. It helps me with intonation by forcing me to try to always play in tune with the recording or app. I think this is better than using a drone.
 
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#89
Al Garcia said:
I haven't seen anyone mention using backing tracks (Jamey Aebersold, etc) as an aid to improve intonation. I always practice with backing tracks or an app. I've been using the IReal Pro app on my IPhone lately to play along with standards. It helps me with intonation by forcing me to try to always play in tune with the recording or app. I think this is better than using a drone.
Click to expand...

I use that app, too. It does help, for sure. Though I think it has a weird out-of-phase kinda sound to it, for lack of a better description. Maybe it's just me?
 
#93
Any chance you play or played piano in the past? In struggled with big intonation problems for years. I started studying piano again and taking lessons, and somehow the experience of practicing piano really helped my intonation on DB. As a kid I more or less had very good relative, if not perfect, pitch, and I focused on that as well. Ever since taking those piano lessons and keeping up with some piano, intonation has been way better.
 
#97
Al Garcia said:
I haven't seen anyone mention using backing tracks (Jamey Aebersold, etc) as an aid to improve intonation. I always practice with backing tracks or an app. I've been using the IReal Pro app on my IPhone lately to play along with standards. It helps me with intonation by forcing me to try to always play in tune with the recording or app. I think this is better than using a drone.
Click to expand...
That is probably because this is a horrible idea. Multi-tasking is one of the biggest mistakes you can make with the double bass. Trying "work on intonation" while trying to "work on playing tunes" is going to leave you with not doing either very well in the end.
Lauren Pierce made me a believer in drones. She suggests starting each day with an A drone and doing vomits on an A major scale up the G string.
Spending time with things like this, as well as scales around the cycle of 4th or 5ths and memorized etudes, where you can use your eyes as well to monitor left hand shapes and movements before moving on to written etudes from a proven method like Simandl or Petracchi or both, is a far more time-tested and proven way to go. Also, it doesn't take more than 15-20min.
Some days I play all twelve majors with a drone, sometimes I do a routine with and E drone:
The major scale vomit, a two octave Simandl exercise from p. 37 in the red version transposed to E up the E string, followed by the first Petracchi exercise transposed to E, and triads in TP chromatically back down ending on the 5th of an triad (E). I move this whole system to A, then I either play the rest of the twelve majors with drones or without. SOMETIMES I add metronome to the one octave majors - after a decade that level of multitasking can work.
I get on with written practice.
Now, I wouldn't use backing tracks ever, but, if you chose to, you worry about the form and not your intonation.
 
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#98
I can't tell you how much I practiced playing G-A-B-C-D (open-1-4-1-4)on the first string and also a 1-octave D major scale, so you get G-A-B-C#-D on the first string. It was just horrible until it wasn't. And then it was OK most of the time on the way up and horrible on the way down, so that a million times.

And G-A-B-C with a half-step position switch between the A and the B.

If you can't hear when you're out of tune, that's a thing to work on, for sure, and it's the reason why I insist on playing with my students in their lessons, so they have a reference.

Playing with a piano is wonderful practice. I like to play easy vocal music on the bass while my wife plays the accompaniments on piano. Look up "Caro Mio Ben". Pick stuff that's slow to moderate in speed, use a bow. Helps if you can read treble clef and there's tons of this available that way.

-S-
 
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#99
I got that intunator app someone mentioned earlier, and I like it a lot. You can use the visual feedback or just your ear, or both. 5-10 minutes daily is quite nice. After that 5-10 minutes with a drone. Truth is, if I could play perfectly in tune, I'd be rich and famous. It's a lifetimes task.
 
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#100
For a jazz player to get better at intonation he will benefit from standard classical technique.

Bowing and a tuner will help. Ray Brown and Ron Carter, while great jazz players, are horribly out of tune with the bow. Try recording yourself while bowing. It may be shocking but this is what people hear when you play. I have an inexpensive tuner/metronome that also records.

Muscle memory gets you in the ballpark with each note, then adjust. I feel the players that have the best intonation are faster at this split second adjustment.

A loud amplified jazz gig with a hard hitting drummer will kill your intonation. You have to expect this, and prepare to work with the other’s volume as best you can. A trumpet playing friend with perfect pitch tells me loud bands take away his perfect pitch.
 
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