AudioKinesis Cabs Part VI...

[bassically_eli]

Thanks so much for chiming in everyone.

Does the 2 or 3 extra dB you'd get from the 2x12 at 1000 Watts (vs. the 1x15 at 500) account for all that extra air moved?

I think the extra mass of air moved has more to do with the extra low end reinforcement, and the extra couple of decibels have more to do with the increased cone area. That's an oversimplification, but seems to be a reasonable generalization when modeling speaker cabs. Remember, it takes more energy to produce low frequencies at a given SPL than it does to produce higher frequencies at the same SPL. Put another way, some of those extra watts go towards the higher SPL, and some towards more low end response.

The v1 Thunderchild has two ports on the back, correct?

That's right, two ports. And you called it, so far one port plugged is my favorite, although I haven't played with it sealed yet, and things will probably change in a band/venue setting. I generally play 5-string when I play electric, so it'll be an interesting balancing act. In fact, I play with in a hip-hop crossover group with an electric cellist (she's phenomenal), guitar, and occasional keys/piano. That dense mix with the cello and keys reaching down into the bass territory gets me playing way down low way more than I ever did before. That band needs a bass with a big low end. There's definitely going to be a learning curve in knowing when/how to use the HPF vs. the EQ vs. the port plugs. I promise not to spend the whole gig fiddlin' with my gear, I promise not to spend the whole gig fiddlin' with my gear, I promise--oooo, shiny new toy!

I'll have to ask Duke about the power handling with the port(s) plugged. I'm somewhat concerned about overheating the woofer with the cab sealed.

...but, as far as I understand, they don't de-load the driver in the same way below a given frequency....

The Big-E tech definitely allows them to extend the frequency response somehow, and it definitely sounds tighter than most ported cabs but fuller than most sealed cabs. I think the way they've put it in the past is that the MVW tech allows them to significantly extend the frequency response below the the driver Fs, but don't quote me on that.

 

[bassically_eli]

I use a pair of TC112v4s. The crossover is a bit tweaked from earlier versions but the main difference is that the v4 has the same beefier compression driver as the TC115. He did this to make the v4 more usable for keyboards and as a light-duty PA speaker. I play keyboard and program music through them at home (and they sound superb), but have only played bass through it while playing out (so far).

I used to run a pair of TC112v1s, but only for bass. I think the v1s would be suitable at lower volumes for voice and acoustic instruments, but Duke would be the one to weigh in on this.

Also, I'm pretty sure @Passinwind uses a TC112v1 for voice and multiple instruments. He would be able to give you the scoop on that.

Hope that helps (a little),

Bob

I think that's where I got confused. I probably read about the v4 being used for PA and assumed that all the TC cabs were designed that way. I'm not too concerned about it, though. I'm really only interested in very light duty PA usage. You know those small gigs with just one or two PA speakers. This would allow me to eliminate one of those speakers. For the bigger gigs, there'll be a full PA.

 

[Passinwind]

I think that's where I got confused. I probably read about the v4 being used for PA and assumed that all the TC cabs were designed that way. I'm not too concerned about it, though. I'm really only interested in very light duty PA usage. You know those small gigs with just one or two PA speakers. This would allow me to eliminate one of those speakers. For the bigger gigs, there'll be a full PA.

I've used my TC112v1 very happily for bowed and pizz EUB and AUB, BG, slide bass, keys, acoustic guitar, mandolin, violin, cajon, voice, and guitar synth, and to run small open mics in restaurants and coffee shops with whatever showed up all going through the single cab.The compression driver is the limiting factor in how hard you can push, but for the jazz and Americana type stuff I've mostly used it for it's always worked great. The guitar synth was the toughest ask and the heavier compression driver in the newer ones that @RColie mentioned would defintely do better with that. At NAMM the last few years my friend had a two tweeter TC112 in his booth, which would be probably great for accomodating some of your bandmates on casuals.

I rarely plug either port on my V1 and your power handing concerns are prescient, I think. Duke has mentioned earlier fartout as a possibility with both blocked. Personally, I greatly prefer using my HPF to manage low low end, which I tend to want more of than most people. I hear things as being less distorted that way, which is generally my top goal. But as usual, whatever sounds good is good.

 

[mexicanyella]

Thanks so much for chiming in everyone.


I think the extra mass of air moved has more to do with the extra low end reinforcement, and the extra couple of decibels have more to do with the increased cone area. That's an oversimplification, but seems to be a reasonable generalization when modeling speaker cabs. Remember, it takes more energy to produce low frequencies at a given SPL than it does to produce higher frequencies at the same SPL. Put another way, some of those extra watts go towards the higher SPL, and some towards more low end response.

That's right, two ports. And you called it, so far one port plugged is my favorite, although I haven't played with it sealed yet, and things will probably change in a band/venue setting. I generally play 5-string when I play electric, so it'll be an interesting balancing act. In fact, I play with in a hip-hop crossover group with an electric cellist (she's phenomenal), guitar, and occasional keys/piano. That dense mix with the cello and keys reaching down into the bass territory gets me playing way down low way more than I ever did before. That band needs a bass with a big low end. There's definitely going to be a learning curve in knowing when/how to use the HPF vs. the EQ vs. the port plugs. I promise not to spend the whole gig fiddlin' with my gear, I promise not to spend the whole gig fiddlin' with my gear, I promise--oooo, shiny new toy!

I'll have to ask Duke about the power handling with the port(s) plugged. I'm somewhat concerned about overheating the woofer with the cab sealed.


The Big-E tech definitely allows them to extend the frequency response somehow, and it definitely sounds tighter than most ported cabs but fuller than most sealed cabs. I think the way they've put it in the past is that the MVW tech allows them to significantly extend the frequency response below the the driver Fs, but don't quote me on that.

Hey E86, do you have any recorded examples of the ensemble you mentioned above? If so, I’d love to hear it, and so would my stepmom, who has gotten really into cello in her retirement and would probably dig hearing what for her would be “outside the box” cello playing.

 

[bassically_eli]

Hey E86, do you have any recorded examples of the ensemble you mentioned above? If so, I’d love to hear it, and so would my stepmom, who has gotten really into cello in her retirement and would probably dig hearing what for her would be “outside the box” cello playing.

I don't have much with the full group. We only started playing together a few months before the pandemic shutdown. However, as far as the cellist goes, you can see some samples of Brianna's cello playing on Instagram and Facebook @brianna.tam.cello. If you ever happen to be in the Carolinas, you can also catch her with the Spartanburg Symphony and the Fayetteville Symphony; she's the principle in one and assistant principle in the other.
The hip-hop artist who put the group together goes by the stage name Camus, and he released his debut solo album a few months ago. You can find it on Spotify, and I'm sure other streaming services as well. But again, that's his solo album; there's only one track with cello. Still a great album, though!
As for the full group, it's called Camus & the Crew. Hopefully, we'll be putting out some material with the full band just as soon as it's deemed safe to do so.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

...I used to run a pair of TC112v1s, but only for bass. I think the v1s would be suitable at lower volumes for voice and acoustic instruments, but Duke would be the one to weigh in on this.

Also, I'm pretty sure @Passinwind uses a TC112v1 for voice and multiple instruments. He would be able to give you the scoop on that.

I've used my single TC112v1 AF as a full-range speaker for acoustic guitar, electric piano, vocals, and electric guitar in various combinations. Also for recorded background music. As long as you're not expecting sparkly highs past 15KHz, it also serves as a surprisingly decent Hi-Fi speaker.

This has always been at relatively quiet, coffee-shop stage levels. I would guess that peak power input was probably somewhere south of 200 watts most of the time. Under those conditions, it has always sounded great, and there were never any signs of distress from the horn.

Note that none of those situations involved mic'ing live percussion. Others will have to weigh in on what happens if you push one (or a pair) a little harder...

 

[SemiDriven]

So our rock band is ditching monitors and going with IEM’s. We have a loud acoustic drummer as well as 2-guitar cabs and the bass cab. So far so good (in the basement). Overall, there is less stage noise — we can hear ourselves better. And our ears ain’t ringing at the end of the night.

For those of you using IEM’s along with your AK cab(s) or any bass cab for that matter, are there any challenges that you or your band has had to address? I’m thinking more in terms of a live audience setting rather than a rehearsal setting. Open-ended question. Just wondering if there is anything I need to be thinking about (asking you guys first before doing any digging in IEM / sound stage threads). We’ve got an outdoor gig coming up in a few weeks (it’s still on!).

Oh…having a good IEM might be first in line regarding any challenges faced. I'm finding that a decent IEM 1) diminishes volume noise and 2) helps me hear the vocals and guitars adequately. FWIW, I’m trying out a CCA-C16.

 

[bassically_eli]

Really digging the TC112af-v1 so far. I used it at a local coffeeshop/bar last night for a live stream (no crowd), and it sounded really good, not that I'm surprised. It was for a four piece (normally a five piece, but we're missing our violinist/vocalist, damn COVID) Americana/folk/rock band. I played all upright bass with a fair amount of bowing. Interestingly, I'm really enjoying my copper Realist more lately, and I'm not adjusting any EQ or gain setting when switching to Arco. I think that's in part due to the super natural sound of the Thunderchild, but mostly due to the work I had done recently to my bass. Shout-out to the Bass Violin Shop in Greensboro, NC for an excellent fingerboard dressing and bridge setup! My band, which I only joined about 2.5 months ago, really digged the bowing.

I'm really enjoying the rear tweeter on the TC, but I do wish I could make it a bit louder sometimes. I also find myself wondering how one of those 3" Faitals would sound back there. Sort of a Thunderchild/Changeling hybrid, if you will. IDK, maybe that's a terrible idea, but I find the idea appealing because of the potentially lower crossover point as well as the extra dispersion of Duke's open format midrange chambers.

Edit: I mentioned a lower crossover point, so I should probably mention that the precision ports actually let a good amount of midrange reach the back of the cab. It's very cool!

 

[MarkA]

Really digging the TC112af-v1 so far. I used it at a local coffeeshop/bar last night for a live stream (no crowd), and it sounded really good, not that I'm surprised. It was for a four piece (normally a five piece, but we're missing our violinist/vocalist, damn COVID) Americana/folk/rock band. I played all upright bass with a fair amount of bowing. Interestingly, I'm really enjoying my copper Realist more lately, and I'm not adjusting any EQ or gain setting when switching to Arco. I think that's in part due to the super natural sound of the Thunderchild, but mostly due to the work I had done recently to my bass. Shout-out to the Bass Violin Shop in Greensboro, NC for an excellent fingerboard dressing and bridge setup! My band, which I only joined about 2.5 months ago, really digged the bowing.

I'm really enjoying the rear tweeter on the TC, but I do wish I could make it a bit louder sometimes. I also find myself wondering how one of those 3" Faitals would sound back there. Sort of a Thunderchild/Changeling hybrid, if you will. IDK, maybe that's a terrible idea, but I find the idea appealing because of the potentially lower crossover point as well as the extra dispersion of Duke's open format midrange chambers.

Edit: I mentioned a lower crossover point, so I should probably mention that the precision ports actually let a good amount of midrange reach the back of the cab. It's very cool!

Groovy -- and hooray for arco!

 

[TomB]

Really digging the TC112af-v1 so far. I used it at a local coffeeshop/bar last night for a live stream (no crowd), and it sounded really good, not that I'm surprised. It was for a four piece (normally a five piece, but we're missing our violinist/vocalist, damn COVID) Americana/folk/rock band. I played all upright bass with a fair amount of bowing. Interestingly, I'm really enjoying my copper Realist more lately, and I'm not adjusting any EQ or gain setting when switching to Arco. I think that's in part due to the super natural sound of the Thunderchild, but mostly due to the work I had done recently to my bass. Shout-out to the Bass Violin Shop in Greensboro, NC for an excellent fingerboard dressing and bridge setup! My band, which I only joined about 2.5 months ago, really digged the bowing.

I'm really enjoying the rear tweeter on the TC, but I do wish I could make it a bit louder sometimes. I also find myself wondering how one of those 3" Faitals would sound back there. Sort of a Thunderchild/Changeling hybrid, if you will. IDK, maybe that's a terrible idea, but I find the idea appealing because of the potentially lower crossover point as well as the extra dispersion of Duke's open format midrange chambers.

Edit: I mentioned a lower crossover point, so I should probably mention that the precision ports actually let a good amount of midrange reach the back of the cab. It's very cool!

Congrats! I agree the AF is a subtle effect, but I like it, especially (back when) I played in intimate settings . I run the ports wide open on my TC112 so yes, plenty of mids to the rear. I have a Changeling coming some day so I’ll be able to compare.

 

[Glenn McNemar]

Hey guys, just purchased a composite tc212 used and I was wondering about the specs. I’m fairly familiar with the thread but new to posting. I’m assuming that it’s 4ohm v1, I’m just wondering about the horn limitations. As in what is the difference between the wider horn and the more square footprint of the v2 horn. Also there is a h1855 for sale and I can’t find the reason it was discontinued, it might be parts availability or just Duke going in a different direction. I can’t remember. Thanks ahead of time, love this thread.

 

[Pat C.]

Also there is a h1855 for sale and I can’t find the reason it was discontinued, it might be parts availability or just Duke going in a different direction. I can’t remember. Thanks ahead of time, love this thread.

Who's got an 1855 for sale and where?!? That's a pretty rare find.

 

[monsterthompson]

Who's got an 1855 for sale and where?!? That's a pretty rare find.

It’s up on Reverb for $999 from IL.
AudioKinesis Hathor 1855 (USED)
AudioKinesis Hathor 1855 (USED) | Mojo's Music | Reverb

 

[Passinwind]

Hey guys, just purchased a composite tc212 used and I was wondering about the specs. I’m fairly familiar with the thread but new to posting. I’m assuming that it’s 4ohm v1, I’m just wondering about the horn limitations. As in what is the difference between the wider horn and the more square footprint of the v2 horn. Also there is a h1855 for sale and I can’t find the reason it was discontinued, it might be parts availability or just Duke going in a different direction. I can’t remember. Thanks ahead of time, love this thread.

IIRC Duke mentioned that the 1855 was too labor intensive to keep building. Personally, the TC118 was more my speed, FWIW. Not positive, but I think the TC212 used a more upscale compression driver than the TC112 right from the start, I’ll see if I can find that info for you. Mike Arnopol would probably know in any case, since he built the composite ones.

The V2 horn has a more symmetric dispersion pattern, which tends to favor near field monitoring IME.

 

[bassically_eli]

I think the TC212 started out with the same compression driver as the TC115, which has higher power handling than the TC112v1. A seemingly necessary upgrade if you want the compression driver to keep up with the higher output woofer(s).

 

[fourstr00]

Mojo’s is a very cool shop. SIUE is the local college and has a strong jazz program. I wouldn’t be surprised if that cab is from someone that’s part of the St Louis jazz scene.

/native

 

[tombowlus]

It’s up on Reverb for $999 from IL.
AudioKinesis Hathor 1855 (USED)
AudioKinesis Hathor 1855 (USED) | Mojo's Music | Reverb

Those are SWEET! I've been playing mine a ton lately.

 

[Dee-man]

I had a TC118 for a little while and, man, did that sound huge.

EDIT: And clear - no mud!

 

[Type-55]

Mojo as has a TC 115 composite cab as well. Great cab.
Prices seem a little high.

 

[SemiDriven]

Also there is a h1855 for sale....

AudioKinesis Hathor 1855 (USED) | Mojo's Music | Reverb

Thanks for the heads-up...

Those are SWEET! I've been playing mine a ton lately.

...and the shot of courage!

After some intense soul-searching, head-scratching, and check-book calculations, this beauty is headed my way!

Way looking forward to how this cab performs in an upcoming outdoor gig!

Many thanks to Thomas Pullen at Mojo’s Music for his straightforward communication and excellent customer service!