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Comparing the tone of three different "boutique" cables
- Thread starter bongomania
- Start date
i had heard about some jazz bass cable, which i why i asked. i've only ever seen the standard one.
Nah that guy earlier in the thread was making a joke. Monster does have a "Jazz" cable, but it is not a "Bass" cable. 
At any rate, the long-held claim has been that the Monster Bass cable rolls off highs, which would lead to an apparent boost of the lows. It's too early in my tests to tell conclusively whether that is true or not with a passive bass--but I have shown that it is not true with an active bass.
At any rate, the long-held claim has been that the Monster Bass cable rolls off highs, which would lead to an apparent boost of the lows. It's too early in my tests to tell conclusively whether that is true or not with a passive bass--but I have shown that it is not true with an active bass.
- Apr 24, 2004
- 1,359
- 53
- Disclosures
- Designer Fodera Guitars/Michael Pope Design, Inc., Trickfish Amplification
FYI, Monster's whole paradigm is a little wierd. They sell you a $5.00 dollar cable for $100.00 with a lifetime guarantee, and then when it breaks they give you another $5.00 cable. The ones I've seen are cheap, cheap, cheap.
a free bump to see what you've done recently, if any.
i had to go back 3 pages of subscriptions to find this thread. hope everything's still orking out
i had to go back 3 pages of subscriptions to find this thread. hope everything's still orking out
You're paying WAY too much for your cable. Try Markertek. Canare Star Quad is 51 cents a foot.
scotch
It's not rocket science!
- Nov 12, 2006
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- Please see Profile for Endorsement disclosures
It's .90 a foot at Markertek as well!
Invalid Link Removed
Isn't Star-Quad better for speaker applications as opposed to instrument-level passive signals? It is cheaper, but is it true that it's overall capacitance is higher than the single conductor in GS-6?
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Star-quad is great for balanced cables, but I haven't compared it in an unbalanced application.
OK, an update as requested! I ran into a hitch that put everything on a temporary hold until I find the solution.
I got that Zerocap cable (a cable with an active device in parallel to the signal that supposedly reduces the cable's capacitance), and it sounds like it's doing what it claims, but the readings on it from my capacitance tester are totally bogus. I contacted the maker (AQD) and asked about that, and one of their techs responded that only certain kinds of cap testers can accurately read their active system, and he told me the model they use. I then contacted BK Precision, who manufactured both my cap tester and the one used by AQD, and BK responded that none of their cap testers are suitable for accurate measurement of cable capacitance. They assert that only a specialty product designed for cable testing will give an accurate reading. For those that don't know, BK Precision is one of the most respected brands out there.
So I have spent the last few weeks hunting and Googling and emailing around to find such a thing. So far, nothing. There are some nice high-end impedance testers that may do the trick, but I haven't heard from the makers to confirm or deny their suitability for cable testing. Plus, how much money am I going to spend on this????? Some of these impedance testers run into the $4K to $12K range. And I only need to test 10 cables, it will take me one day to do! I asked a rental place, and they have not given me any straight answers about the cost to rent one of these guys for a week or whatever. I've found some nice old refurbed HP/Agilent units on Ebay for under $700, that might do the job, but even then--am I seriously spending $700 for a device that I will need for only one day?
Please, if any of you have a good solution in mind, let me know.
Actually, there has been a second hitch as well---I'm getting hitched! Married, that is. So that's taken up a lot of my time and resources, as you can imagine. I should be back to wasting all of my time and money trying to prove a technical point within two or three weeks, though.
OK, an update as requested! I ran into a hitch that put everything on a temporary hold until I find the solution.
I got that Zerocap cable (a cable with an active device in parallel to the signal that supposedly reduces the cable's capacitance), and it sounds like it's doing what it claims, but the readings on it from my capacitance tester are totally bogus. I contacted the maker (AQD) and asked about that, and one of their techs responded that only certain kinds of cap testers can accurately read their active system, and he told me the model they use. I then contacted BK Precision, who manufactured both my cap tester and the one used by AQD, and BK responded that none of their cap testers are suitable for accurate measurement of cable capacitance. They assert that only a specialty product designed for cable testing will give an accurate reading. For those that don't know, BK Precision is one of the most respected brands out there.
So I have spent the last few weeks hunting and Googling and emailing around to find such a thing. So far, nothing. There are some nice high-end impedance testers that may do the trick, but I haven't heard from the makers to confirm or deny their suitability for cable testing. Plus, how much money am I going to spend on this????? Some of these impedance testers run into the $4K to $12K range. And I only need to test 10 cables, it will take me one day to do! I asked a rental place, and they have not given me any straight answers about the cost to rent one of these guys for a week or whatever. I've found some nice old refurbed HP/Agilent units on Ebay for under $700, that might do the job, but even then--am I seriously spending $700 for a device that I will need for only one day?
Please, if any of you have a good solution in mind, let me know.
Actually, there has been a second hitch as well---I'm getting hitched! Married, that is. So that's taken up a lot of my time and resources, as you can imagine. I should be back to wasting all of my time and money trying to prove a technical point within two or three weeks, though.
Ive actually worked in the AV industry for over a decade and can possibly shed some light on this whole cable thing that monster seems to blow out of proportion.
Heres what Monster banks on... The monster difference is actually the difference between ANY totally cheap low quality cable and ANY properly built cable.
I have done fair A/B tests over the years to please my own curiosity rather than to fool customers and the findings were the same each time.
Monster vs. "free crappy" usually had more defined and full bass with the monster cable and more controlled treble as well.
Heres the fun part. I decided to A/B all the levels of Monster against each other and found that they are exactly the same. Then I tried Monster vs. AcousticResearch (decent bestbuy brand) and found them to be exactly the same as well.
So Monsters strategy? Make sure theyre the first "non-garbage" cable average people hear.
By the way... all the differences that betweeen the cables could only be heard while listening to one speaker at a time on music without alot of complexity.
The main test I did with coworkers was a pretty simple one.
We connected a $400 Harmon Kardon Receiver to a $250 Harmon Kardon CD changer.
For the left channel we used a Monster Interconnect cable from the source to the amp and then used a Monster XP speaker cable from the amp to the speaker.
For the right channel we used the freebie cables that came in the box.
We listened to the intro of that stupid Dance Dance song by Fall Out Boy.
The speakers were then put directly next to each other and the balance knob on the amp was turned from L to R so the speakers could be heard on their own.
The interesting thing was that all 7 of my coworkers were able to blindly pick out the monster cable setup.
The moral of the story? I was able to get 7 AV professionals to hear a difference in one 15 second part of one song after I spent an hour listening to music and finding which song clearly displayed a difference. So buy whatever cable is cheapest and built well enough that it wont let you down at a show.
Heres what Monster banks on... The monster difference is actually the difference between ANY totally cheap low quality cable and ANY properly built cable.
I have done fair A/B tests over the years to please my own curiosity rather than to fool customers and the findings were the same each time.
Monster vs. "free crappy" usually had more defined and full bass with the monster cable and more controlled treble as well.
Heres the fun part. I decided to A/B all the levels of Monster against each other and found that they are exactly the same. Then I tried Monster vs. AcousticResearch (decent bestbuy brand) and found them to be exactly the same as well.
So Monsters strategy? Make sure theyre the first "non-garbage" cable average people hear.
By the way... all the differences that betweeen the cables could only be heard while listening to one speaker at a time on music without alot of complexity.
The main test I did with coworkers was a pretty simple one.
We connected a $400 Harmon Kardon Receiver to a $250 Harmon Kardon CD changer.
For the left channel we used a Monster Interconnect cable from the source to the amp and then used a Monster XP speaker cable from the amp to the speaker.
For the right channel we used the freebie cables that came in the box.
We listened to the intro of that stupid Dance Dance song by Fall Out Boy.
The speakers were then put directly next to each other and the balance knob on the amp was turned from L to R so the speakers could be heard on their own.
The interesting thing was that all 7 of my coworkers were able to blindly pick out the monster cable setup.
The moral of the story? I was able to get 7 AV professionals to hear a difference in one 15 second part of one song after I spent an hour listening to music and finding which song clearly displayed a difference. So buy whatever cable is cheapest and built well enough that it wont let you down at a show.
In unbalanced application, they have much higher capacitance per foot than typical musical instrument coaxial cable.
I don't think I saw this answered, all you should need is a decent quality resistor in parallel with the input. For 100K total load, you'll need 111.1K, for 20k total load you'll need 20.4k. 1/2 watt metal film resistors should be good.
Good to know; I'm surprised it would be so simple.
As a general thread update, I just today received an LCR meter which should be capable of doing a better job than the one I was using before. Unfortunately it arrived without a power cord or any test leads, so I have to wait for a set of Kelvin clips to arrive. Also I will be getting a digital scope for measuring transient response, but I've been putting it off since I'm already hemorrhaging money on this project. Initially I thought I'd be able to buy a half dozen expensive cables, and return them within the return period, and not lose much money. Well, the return period is expiring, and I ended up buying 11 cables, two kinds of software, a new audio interface, two LCR meters, a few exotic connector cables, and now a new scope. I'll probably end up having spent about $3K on this process... just to demonstrate that people shouldn't spend too much money on cables!!!
As a general thread update, I just today received an LCR meter which should be capable of doing a better job than the one I was using before. Unfortunately it arrived without a power cord or any test leads, so I have to wait for a set of Kelvin clips to arrive. Also I will be getting a digital scope for measuring transient response, but I've been putting it off since I'm already hemorrhaging money on this project. Initially I thought I'd be able to buy a half dozen expensive cables, and return them within the return period, and not lose much money. Well, the return period is expiring, and I ended up buying 11 cables, two kinds of software, a new audio interface, two LCR meters, a few exotic connector cables, and now a new scope. I'll probably end up having spent about $3K on this process... just to demonstrate that people shouldn't spend too much money on cables!!!
okcrum
in your chest
Good to know; I'm surprised it would be so simple.
As a general thread update, I just today received an LCR meter which should be capable of doing a better job than the one I was using before. Unfortunately it arrived without a power cord or any test leads, so I have to wait for a set of Kelvin clips to arrive. Also I will be getting a digital scope for measuring transient response, but I've been putting it off since I'm already hemorrhaging money on this project. Initially I thought I'd be able to buy a half dozen expensive cables, and return them within the return period, and not lose much money. Well, the return period is expiring, and I ended up buying 11 cables, two kinds of software, a new audio interface, two LCR meters, a few exotic connector cables, and now a new scope. I'll probably end up having spent about $3K on this process... just to demonstrate that people shouldn't spend too much money on cables!!!
Then there's me, who doesn't care at all whether people want to waste their money on such things.
okcrum
in your chest
True. However, Bongo now has the option of going into the instrument/amp repair, design, or review business with little or no extra overhead.
I'll probably end up having spent about $3K on this process... just to demonstrate that people shouldn't spend too much money on cables!!!
You're a fine bad example to show that people shouldn't spend on cables
I can't believe you actually spent so much on this! You're pretty damn amazing. When everything is done you could probably compile it, sell a book, and threaten the companies to pay you NOT to publish it in music stores worldwide.
