Get off my LAWN! "Grumpy Old Farts"

[GwenOnBass]

Lemony!

... beware the forensic proctologist ...

 

[El Güero]

Some Tuba Skinny for Tuesday

 

[LBS-bass]

What I find with tabs is the "suggested fingering" may or may not be optimal for me. And I'd just as soon figure out lots of finger sequences for a passage. Something inside me wants to be able to play the same passage as well "the hard way", than in a box pattern.

As a self taught musician, this has become a valuable tool. I will often learn a song by ear, then go off searching for a video to see if someone else has something to teach me in terms of incorrect note choices or better playing patterns. Sometimes I find that I'm really doing things the hard way, and I'll make changes but sometimes I find the way I'm doing it is unconventional but useful in terms of getting from one chord to the next in a reasonable way. And sometimes I find a note here or there that needs to be changed, but sometimes I find that the person in the video is making mistakes.

 

[LBS-bass]

You guys are killing me today and I have to leave for the doctor's in an hour to see what all is indicated.

For me, being able to execute a passage "the hard way" means more options depending on where I'm going. I believe it was Phil Lesh who said "if you play an open string, mean it." What I see is folks who play the doghouse are more likely to incorporate open strings in their technique.

I use open strings when it makes sense to use them; have never adhered to that old saw about avoiding them at all costs. So much music incorporates that low E anyway, and if I have to use that one, I might as well use the rest. No one has ever come up to me from the audience and complained about the tonal differences.

 

[LBS-bass]

It's bone on bone at the Subtalar joint - Wikipedia so fusion is the only option now if "ignore it and hope it goes away" is discarded as the other option. Seemed to me the doctor drew a lot of blood when she drained the bursa sac in that joint. Went all over the place!

Asked if I will still be able to tap my foot and the answer is in the affirmative. I tap my right foot pretty much exclusively. Hey it took a lot of work to learn to tap my foot! <ahem> I'll lose lateral movement in the joint. There are other considerations to be taken up before intervention. Yes, Odin is a great blessing! I look forward to walks with Odin this summer.

Gah. Aging sucks so hard. We still think we're 25 but our bodies vehemently disagree. Do you have a surgery scheduled yet or are you still deciding?

 

[beans-on-toast]

As a self taught musician, this has become a valuable tool. I will often learn a song by ear, then go off searching for a video to see if someone else has something to teach me in terms of incorrect note choices or better playing patterns. Sometimes I find that I'm really doing things the hard way, and I'll make changes but sometimes I find the way I'm doing it is unconventional but useful in terms of getting from one chord to the next in a reasonable way. And sometimes I find a note here or there that needs to be changed, but sometimes I find that the person in the video is making mistakes.

It’s amazing how differently people play things on youtube. Starting with “this is the correct way to play this song”. Often they’re wrong.

At the same time, even the people that wrote the song play things differently. Live can also not be the same as how it was recorded. In some cases, their memory fails and they have to re-learn their own songs. Sometimes tunings are different.

Keeping some form of notation isn’t a bad idea.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Looks more like my ex. He could wield a mean slide in all sorts of random tunings and fingerpick like nobody's business. He was also an arrogant SOB I wasted too many years with. Ah, memories.

Ah But! You did have to try!

 

[Polish Thunder]

It’s amazing how differently people play things. Starting with “this is the correct way to play this song”. Often they’re wrong.

At the same time, even the people that wrote the song play things differently. Live can also be not he same as how it was recorded. In some cases, their memory fails and they have to re-learn their own songs.

Keeping some form of notation isn’t a bad idea.

So as a new bass player (18 months), I have two questions on learning songs.

1. What is the preferred way to learn songs? By ear, tabs, software, or a mixture? I have been using reliable tabs and learning songs by ear, but I do not want to spend days or weeks just to learn one song.

2. Do you learn the songs note-for-note or close-enough (knowing the main riffs)?

For me, I have been using tabs from reliable sources to learn songs quickly. I also do learn some songs by looking at a chord chart, then tabbing out the song by ear.

Since I play a lot of blues, instead of picking a specific recorded song by a specific artist, I have been trying to learn the basic stripped-down version of the song and add a little bit to it to taste.

I am interested in what others do.

Thanks

Edit: If this post is better suited as it's own post or somewhere else, let me know and I will remove it from here.

 

[sharkbait130]

Seahag and I have worked out a fantastic plan for getting our tree up. Bearbait (the youngest daughter but now 30) has a fantastic amount of Christmas spirit and still lives close , so she drops by regularly. Pretty sure she put her tree up a day or two after Thanksgiving. Sometime in the next week or so , she will drop by and notice that our tree is not up and raise hell with us. A few days later , when she drops by again , she will again read us a riot act , then go upstairs , drag the tree down (the same one we have been using for years) and put it up with a definitive "THERE."....... Hehehehee , it's worked for the last three years.

 

[shadowtippy]

Seahag and I have worked out a fantastic plan for getting our tree up. Bearbait (the youngest daughter but now 30) has a fantastic amount of Christmas spirit and still lives close , so she drops by regularly. Pretty sure she put her tree up a day or two after Thanksgiving. Sometime in the next week or so , she will drop by and notice that our tree is not up and raise hell with us. A few days later , when she drops by again , she will again read us a riot act , then go upstairs , drag the tree down (the same one we have been using for years) and put it up with a definitive "THERE."....... Hehehehee , it's worked for the last three years.

I see that you believe in "work smarter, not harder."

 

[GonePlaid]

My 88 year old dad went through prostate cancer treatment years ago. When someone would knock before entering his hospital room, he would call out..."Friend or enema?"

 

[GonePlaid]

I use open strings when it makes sense to use them; have never adhered to that old saw about avoiding them at all costs. So much music incorporates that low E anyway, and if I have to use that one, I might as well use the rest. No one has ever come up to me from the audience and complained about the tonal differences.

There's a big band arranger that will include at least one low E in his charts, even if it makes no sense. Whenever I'm sitting in with a big band and one of his charts comes up, the first thing I do is look for the low E(s).

 

[GonePlaid]

So as a new bass player (18 months), I have two questions on learning songs.

1. What is the preferred way to learn songs? By ear, tabs, software, or a mixture? I have been using reliable tabs and learning songs by ear, but I do not want to spend days or weeks just to learn one song.

2. Do you learn the songs note-for-note or close-enough (knowing the main riffs)?

For me, I have been using tabs from reliable sources to learn songs quickly. I also do learn some songs by looking at a chord chart, then tabbing out the song by ear.

Since I play a lot of blues, instead of picking a specific recorded song by a specific artist, I have been trying to learn the basic stripped-down version of the song and add a little bit to it to taste.

I am interested in what others do.

Thanks

Edit: If this post is better suited as it's own post or somewhere else, let me know and I will remove it from here.

Nah, yer good. As was said, groups that have been doing tours forever don't necessarily play it the same 10-20 years later, notes or tempos. If it's something "new" to me-like at the Sunday Jam-I try to remember what the bass line was last time I heard the song. Sometimes that may take a chorus-or 2. If I've never heard the song b4, I fake it enthusiastically.

 

[Polish Thunder]

Nah, yer good. As was said, groups that have been doing tours forever don't necessarily play it the same 10-20 years later, notes or tempos. If it's something "new" to me-like at the Sunday Jam-I try to remember what the bass line was last time I heard the song. Sometimes that may take a chorus-or 2. If I've never heard the song b4, I fake it enthusiastically.

That reminds me of a Joe Walsh interview years ago. It is discussed about how the Rolling Stones had to listen to some of their old songs so they could remember how to play them.

Here is the interview. Very funny stuff.
Skip to the :50 mark if you just want to hear how the Stones did it.

 

[GonePlaid]

That reminds me of a Joe Walsh interview years ago. It is discussed about how the Rolling Stones had to listen to some of their old songs so they could remember how to play them.

Here is the interview. Very funny stuff.
Skip to the :50 mark if you just want to hear how the Stones did it.

Funny and very likely true for a whole lotta performers. I've written maybe 3 songs. I remember 1.

 

[beans-on-toast]

So as a new bass player (18 months), I have two questions on learning songs.

1. What is the preferred way to learn songs? By ear, tabs, software, or a mixture? I have been using reliable tabs and learning songs by ear, but I do not want to spend days or weeks just to learn one song.

2. Do you learn the songs note-for-note or close-enough (knowing the main riffs)?

For me, I have been using tabs from reliable sources to learn songs quickly. I also do learn some songs by looking at a chord chart, then tabbing out the song by ear.

Since I play a lot of blues, instead of picking a specific recorded song by a specific artist, I have been trying to learn the basic stripped-down version of the song and add a little bit to it to taste.

I am interested in what others do.

Thanks

Edit: If this post is better suited as it's own post or somewhere else, let me know and I will remove it from here.

I started playing bass around 1962, fifty some years ago. I rember because it was before the Beatles hit. I didn't know that there were left handed instruments so I learnt right handed. That was dedication. Then I saw McCartney playing left handed and went Ohhhh!

Back then I listened to the record, lifted the needle to replay sections over and over. There wasn't tab that I knew of. There was sheet music but not with details, mostly chords and melody. People had cheat books, words and chord notation. There were piano books that helped but not really. I don't recall them being accurate for rock and roll songs. If I see a band play, I drink it up. My brain stores visuals forever. So that was my best way to learn. In that respect youtube and DVD concerts are like nothing else. A big advantage of youtube today is that you can find isolated bass tracks for many songs. You wouldn't belive the notes that are there that you can't hear or don't hear right on the recordings.

Tab is great. I usually start by ear. But like you said, the going can be slow when learning songs, whatever means you use. You have to work at it to nail a song and it does take time, at least for me. Start by playing what you can, then refine how you play it as you learn. The danger with that is that is that if you develope a bad habit of playing it the wrong way, it's can be hard to fight the muscle memory and change how you play a song. I prefer to learn a song properly, not to go with my version of the truth.

I start by learning the song by simply listening to it over and over and over.....Then I begin to pick out parts, often using headphones to concentrate. Many argue that the best way is to learn a song is note-for-note, playing it slowly at first, then build up speed. There are software programs that slow the song down. @Stumbo features Song Surgeon and it's a good example of what can be done (Song Surgeon Version 5 | Audio Slow Downer | Key Determination, Beat Detection & Chord Detection). There are other slow downer apps that can help you learn songs, some are free, some are inexpensive. But they are a useful tool so worth the investment. You can usually try them before you buy.

 

[BassmanPaul]

So as a new bass player (18 months), I have two questions on learning songs.

For myself I learn the song listening for the important phrases and then do my own take on it. Yes I could learn the song note for note as anyone could but I feel that if I am playing the tune i should let my talents shine.

 

[GwenOnBass]

Learning note-for-note both helps me understand the structure of the song, and to pick up all manner of things I'd otherwise never have thought of. Once I know the song, I'm free to experiment.

The GOF hotline was open today to inform me a music teacher I know conducts his final public band concert tonight. That's 49 years of conductorating. His primary instrument is trumpet.

Gah. Aging sucks so hard. We still think we're 25 but our bodies vehemently disagree. Do you have a surgery scheduled yet or are you still deciding?

It's back in my court to schedule. There's two other doctors who need to be consulted, and there are practical arrangements to be resolved. Waiting on a bit of paperwork I want in place first, and there is nothing I can do to make it come any faster.

 

[Stumbo]

I started playing bass around 1962, fifty some years ago. I rember because it was before the Beatles hit. I didn't know that there were left handed instruments so I learnt right handed. That was dedication. Then I saw McCartney playing left handed and went Ohhhh!

Back then I listened to the record, lifted the needle to replay sections over and over. There wasn't tab that I knew of. There was sheet music but not with details, mostly chords and melody. People had cheat books, words and chord notation. There were piano books that helped but not really. I don't recall them being accurate for rock and roll songs. If I see a band play, I drink it up. My brain stores visuals forever. So that was my best way to learn. In that respect youtube and DVD concerts are like nothing else. A big advantage of youtube today is that you can find isolated bass tracks for many songs. You wouldn't belive the notes that are there that you can't hear or don't hear right on the recordings.

Tab is great. I usually start by ear. But like you said, the going can be slow when learning songs, whatever means you use. You have to work at it to nail a song and it does take time, at least for me. Start by playing what you can, then refine how you play it as you learn. The danger with that is that is that if you develope a bad habit of playing it the wrong way, it's can be hard to fight the muscle memory and change how you play a song. I prefer to learn a song properly, not to go with my version of the truth.

I start by learning the song by simply listening to it over and over and over.....Then I begin to pick out parts, often using headphones to concentrate. Many argue that the best way is to learn a song is note-for-note, playing it slowly at first, then build up speed. There are software programs that slow the song down. @Stumbo features Song Surgeon and it's a good example of what can be done (Song Surgeon Version 5 | Audio Slow Downer | Key Determination, Beat Detection & Chord Detection). There are other slow downer apps that can help you learn songs, some are free, some are inexpensive. But they are a useful tool so worth the investment. You can usually try them before you buy.

Thanks for the shout out @beans-on-toast

I strongly suggest learning a bit of music theory, especially the basics of the Nashville Numbering System: Nashville Chart

Since you Play the blues, learning the details of chord progressions are key to advancement. Check out the Blues section of my TB Wiki for more infi: TB Wiki Learning Links for All Bass Players

 

[G-Dog]

For myself I learn the song listening for the important phrases and then do my own take on it. Yes I could learn the song note for note as anyone could but I feel that if I am playing the tune i should let my talents shine.

I'm with Paul on this. Depending on available practice time, and my interest in the song, I will be more or less meticulous in my learning process. But, my bottom line is always that this is an artistic endeavor so, therefore, my playing (no matter how meticulous my preparation) will always be my interpretation, within my technical ability. I believe we are all entitled to the leeway of interpretation we routinely give to famous performers playing other artists' songs (sometimes they are even better!).
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