NBD: Why is a 4 string tuned standard EADG and not BEAD ?

[Pedullist]

First 5 string double bass existed from 1760 to 1830 (Vienna). But it was tuned differently (F to A). First 'C extension' bass (kinda like a 5 string bass guitar) appeared around 1880. But the common double bass was preceded by 3 string basses ánd 6 string gamba's, so it's hard to tell what is normal.

 

[Schmo_bass]

A different angle to this question that I often ponder: what if we ignore for the moment any limits around the capability to create or reproduce a tone, and instead ask what is the lowest fundamental frequency that is trully MUSICALLY useful or pleasing to most humans? That is kind of a dub synth question perhaps.

My own POV (and this is of a very course personal pref) is that it feels like there is some shelf starting around low C or low B and below that things are not really that musical. More novelty, tactile and perhaps interesting rather than pleasant or artistic. And I love loud deep bass.

I do understand that a low B string is about more than 31Hz fundamental- has many overtones etc But I still cant shake the suspicion that even in a world of perfect tone generation and reproduction most of us would not want to play much lower?

 

[morgansterne]

Conventions are frequently dumb, or at least arbitrary. Why are there 5280 feet in a mile? Now thats a mystery.

I've lived with English measurements all my life and I still can't tell you how many ounces in a cup, cups in a pint, pints in a gallon.

/Rant off

At least with bass, you can tune it as you like!

 

[khutch]

People in the DB world argue about whether the DB is from the viol or the violin family. When you consider all the internal construction details it apparently borrows from both and so it could be a hybrid. According to some, when the DB was new the common tuning was GDA. Yeah, only three strings and that is a fifths tuning. Speculation is that the string technology of the day could not make a practical C string but the bass was intended to tune that low, music for the DB from those early years often goes down to a C, and the name "double bass" derives from the fact that it was intended to double the cello, but an octave below. Evidently French bassists got tired of waiting for a C string and being limited to three strings and they popularized the EADG tuning which quite plausibly was borrowed from the guitar or the viol.

When Fender started designing his bass guitar he was aiming at guitarists who couldn't find enough work so they were switching to DB. The problem was that they were very different instruments and bands were becoming louder and louder and the DB was difficult to amplify. The Precision Bass removed the need to learn to play fretless, it is very similar to a guitar, you can amplify as much as you are able, it is a lot easier to deal with on stage and in the transport vehicle, ... it was the right idea at the right time and it took off. It is tuned EADG because the double bass it was intended to replace is tuned that way and guitarists are used to that tuning. Double bassists who wanted to switch or use both also found that tuning familiar. From a marketing standpoint it was the only decision that made sense.

I attend local orchestra concerts several times a year. It is a small orchestra and they often have only one DB on stage. I assume their principal DB gets the call in those cases and he uses a C extension. But they use up to three DBs and when that happens it is not uncommon for one to be a traditional four, one to have the C extension, and one to be a five. So it gives you an opportunity to watch how they play the low notes, each taking advantage of the capability of the instrument he plays.

Up above someone stated that the cello goes lower than the bass. If you examine music written for the two it does appear that way. The low E on a bass is one ledger line below the bass clef. The low C on a cello is two ledger lines below the bass clef. Don't be fooled however, bass music is written an octave above where it sounds so that we don't have to deal with all those ledger lines. A cello cannot go as low as an EADG bass and it is an octave above a CGDA bass. Maybe the person who said that knows the truth, just making it clear for everyone else.

The bottom line is that your four string is yours and you can tune it BEAD if you like. I tune mine CGDA so no one is going to get any grief from me over using a non-standard tuning!

 

[SirMjac28]

Does anyone mind if I crowbar a 'Dilly Dilly" into this conversation? it's my Mom's birthday and I promised her I would try.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I think D standard on a four makes the most practical sense with the exception being that 99.72% of all music was written with e tuned 4 strings or b tuned 5s

Capo?

 

[bassliner50]

Bass convention is rooted in upright DB. The vast majority were tuned EADG. There were a few 5 string uprights though. Chubby Jackson played a 5 string DB. A jazz band leader, he tuned EADGC. Had a kids TV show for a while in the 50's which featured his bass w/face!

 

[Bassheart365]

Haven't met a Pedulla yet have ya? Fender Elite I got has pretty dang good B too. Had a Japanese ESP J-five that had an amazing B too....But 34" scale for most inexpensive basses isn't the greatest.

34" B strinds are like wet noodles compared to my 37" Dingwall B string.

 

[Bassheart365]

Maybe if you're playing a .130 or .135 gauge B string on a 34. My .145 B, however, is tight, thunderous and defined on my 34. The tension is more important than the scale length, IMO. And also string fitment is very important for sound transference. (How well the string sits in the nut and bridge saddle.)

Yes, putting on heavier gauges helps. My problem is I'm hopelessly spoiled by the 37" B on my Dingwall.

 

[HeadWind]

I may be remembering this wrong, but...

I lived in the San Francisco area in the mid 1980s and saw the Grateful Dead a lot (since they played around there all the time back then, and 80s music sucked back then as much it still does, but back on track...).

Phil Lesh played a 5-string bass back then.

Radio Station KFOG had this weekly show called the Deadhead hour when they played concert tapes recorded from the audience. Trading tapes was huge back then. This is all pre-internet of course.

One night they had Phil Lesh on the show taking call-in questions. I tried but couldn't get through. The show ended and I figured I'd try once more anyway. They answered and said the show was over and no more questions, but I said "hey, I want to know how Phil tunes his bass!". They said that was a great question so they went and tracked him down and put him on the phone.

This is where I may be misremembering, because I thought he said he tuned EADGC. But that may be from how I phrased the question. I had assumed that the fifth string would be higher, not lower. And I was wondering if he tuned it to a B like a guitar, or whether he he kept it as a fourth and tuned it to C. So I may have just asked if he tuned it all to fourths.

 

[RyanJD]

Yes, putting on heavier gauges helps. My problem is I'm hopelessly spoiled by the 37" B on my Dingwall.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. Scale length is definitely a big factor to getting a good B sound. Looking at an acoustic piano is proof enough for that. But there are other ways to get by.
I'm waiting for the day I can afford a Dingwall. I've had one on my GAS list in my profile for a couple years now!

 

[Bunnoodle]

Scale length is definitely a big factor to getting a good B sound

I got a cheap Yamaha TRBX with a 34" scale for now and the B is surprisingly tight. Tune it to A , maybe not.

 

[Robroy]

Imagine 50s and 60s music played with low B lol

I was in a band that specialized in just that pop/rock, and yes, I used a fiver. Frankly, one of the big advantages is the whole ability to fret E. But I did occasionally use the D and sometimes all the way down to C.

 

[Drgonzonm]

it is funny because in the same year, Anthony Jackson had Carl Thompson build him his first 6 strings bass.

mariachi plays a six string bass, With a low A as the bottom string, they aren't electric, but they've been around for long time.

 

[Drgonzonm]

...

My own POV (and this is of a very course personal pref) is that it feels like there is some shelf starting around low C or low B and below that things are not really that musical. More novelty, tactile and perhaps interesting rather than pleasant or artistic. And I love loud deep bass.

I do understand that a low B string is about more than 31Hz fundamental- has many overtones etc But I still cant shake the suspicion that even in a world of perfect tone generation and reproduction most of us would not want to play much lower?

please do not repeat this to any suazaphone or tuba players, we might get banned from Oktoberfest gigs.

 

[Sixgunn]

Lowest note on a modern piano is A which is at 27.5Hz. That frequency is where the human ear can begin to hear the sound. Any lower and we can't hear it.

I can hear 27.4!!

 

[MobileHolmes]

I think the first two answers (upright bass, guitar tuning) are spot on. I'd also add that there was basically no amp that could cope with a B for quite a while.

Beyond that, I could see some merits there. I've been playing a lot of standards lately, And a lot of them are in horn keys where having an E flat at least would be useful

 

[Sixgunn]

Because B strings sound like crap on standard 34" scale basses.

Exactly. except you're totally wrong.

 

[Sixgunn]

Unfortunately we’ll have no way of ever really knowing will we? We can speculate all we like. But there’s no way to predict with any degree of accuracy how the musical universe would or wouldn’t have changed if one thing was just a little different.

So it’s an interesting speculation and argument. But that doesn’t make it a given. It might have been just as likely that with the state of bass amplification back then, the results would have been less than ideal and the bass guitar abandoned and ultimately seen as an experiment that failed. So maybe it’s just as likely the upright would have remained the bass instrument of choice had BEAD been how Fender tuned his first basses.

Aren’t alternate histories fun to spin?

What's the best upright bass for metal?

 

[40Hz]

What's the best upright bass for metal?

This aluminum bodied one gets my vote: