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New found respect for John Paul Jones.

#101
Page vs. Van Halen? An interesting (if pointless) debate. IMO, compared to Page, Eddie Van Halen is one dimensional. All his solos sound pretty much the same to me, *compositionally*. On the other hand, Van Halen is obviously faster and more precise, if that's what you care about.
Neither one has ever done anything that moved me.
I'm more of a Duane Allman, Hendrix, Clapton guy. Hendrix's little guitar fills in between the vocal lines of his Monterey version of "Like a Rolling Stone" have more emotional impact on me than anything Page or Van Halen ever did. :ninja:
 
#102
I still like the quote!
Not going to get into a Page vs Eddie debate... just thought I'd pass the quote along. I heard another one recently from Eddie during a stop over at a Vai session... should probably keep that one to myself!
Bottom line, I don't have to like something, to respect it. And I won't get my underware in a knot if someone disagrees!
Fishheadjoe
 
#103
Blowfish face and tinkerbell? No idea what you're talking about but I like the attitude!
GlennW said:
Eddie could blow Page away in his sleep. I'm not a fan of either band, but there's no comparision in the abilities of the guitar players.

I saw LZ in '70, Page was off and the show SUCKED. AFAIC the drummer was the best musician in that band, then JPJ, then blowfish face and Tinkerbell.
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#107
Whatever you may think about the rest of the band, John Paul Jones is one of the most rock-solid, interesting and influential rock and roll bass players around.

He not only puts incredibly supportive, intelligent and melodic bass lines to Zep's songs (all of them - without fail), he also explores the full gamut of tones, from smooth, buttery blues ("Dazed and Confused") to toothy, gritty metallic ("Achilles Last Stand", "Good Times, Bad Times", "The Immigrant Song" etc.) and covers many territories in between.

He employs finger style and plays with a pick like he was born to do so, is one of the early adopters of the 8-string, and is personally responsible for an approach to rock, blues, 'world' and many other interesting ways to apply bass.

JPJ is worthy of praise and respect no matter what you may think about Led Zeppelin or it's other members. He is a "musicians" bass player, to be sure.
 
#108
tZer said:
Whatever you may think about the rest of the band, John Paul Jones is one of the most rock-solid, interesting and influential rock and roll bass players around.

He not only puts incredibly supportive, intelligent and melodic bass lines to Zep's songs (all of them - without fail), he also explores the full gamut of tones, from smooth, buttery blues ("Dazed and Confused") to toothy, gritty metallic ("Achilles Last Stand", "Good Times, Bad Times", "The Immigrant Song" etc.) and covers many territories in between.

He employs finger style and plays with a pick like he was born to do so, is one of the early adopters of the 8-string, and is personally responsible for an approach to rock, blues, 'world' and many other interesting ways to apply bass.

JPJ is worthy of praise and respect no matter what you may think about Led Zeppelin or it's other members. He is a "musicians" bass player, to be sure.
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I agree 100%.
 
#110
tZer said:
He ...is one of the early adopters of the 8-string
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As long as we're splitting hairs -- and really, is there anything else an internet forum does other than allow anonymous folks to split hairs? -- I think it's a bit inaccurate to refer to JPJ as an "early" adopter of the 8-string bass. He didn't start playing 8-string bass until what, 1975? 1976? Noel Redding was playing a Hagstrom 8-string in 1968.

I will concede that JPJ is one of the most fervent embracers of the 8-string...he's perhaps that instruments most enthusiastic user.
 
#111
I just picked up Led Zeppelin I-II-III-IV bass transcription by Alfred Publishing, just been going through it for a few days but I already find them an invaluable resources. Not only are the transcription seem very accurate if you want to play cover, but if you're in a rut like I was and need inspirational material to adapt to your own playing, especially for blues and blues/rock, I bet you'd find something in there, I know I did.
 
#112
bullshark said:
I just picked up Led Zeppelin I-II-III-IV bass transcription by Alfred Publishing, just been going through it for a few days but I already find them an invaluable resources. Not only are the transcription seem very accurate if you want to play cover, but if you're in a rut like I was and need inspirational material to adapt to your own playing, especially for blues and blues/rock, I bet you'd find something in there, I know I did.
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I bought those books a while back and "invaluable resources" is an understatement. You're so right, as I set out to just learn the basslines for fun, yet I'm actually getting a lot more out of it than just knowing the notes, and learning some things along the way.
 
#113
bassteban said:
Agreed. For a similar experience, try playing some of John Deacon's stuff. Subtle.
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Always been a Zep fan (since high school, anyway) but yeah, Deacon is the one bassist who still really shocks me. So melodic -- perhaps the only rock bassist whose lines entirely singable parts in their own right, in addition to Freddie's vocal part.

It's a shame Deacon is such a recluse, and hasn't issued an instructional DVD or other "manifesto of style."
 
#114
JTE said:
Mine is the opposite view. I never paid attentionto JPJ because the band's music was so bad. Page is an annoying lead guitarists- sloppy soloing without the benefit if passion. Plant's voice is even more annoying. The wrote very few songs- because a riff ain't a song. And if the song can't stand up without the specific performance, it ain't a good song. The best Page solo ever is the little one he composed for "Whole Lotta Love". It's just a cultural phenomena, but the music just wasnt' there for me.

But reading Jones' interviews in GP and later in BP made me pay attention to his playing. Now if he and Bonzo had hooked up with a real songwriter like Townsend, and a real rock 'n' roll singer like Paul Rogers, that'd have been a great band.

jte
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Wow. An opinion, only presented as a definitive fact.:rolleyes:
 
#115
I don't mind strong opinions, even when presented as fact, as long as they're intelligent. But that opinion of Zep/Page and their songs is ludicrous. If you don't like hard rock that's one thing but to claim Page wasn't a great hard rock guitar player is stupid. If Page isn't a great hard rock guitarist, who is? Mick Ralphs?
If Zep wasn't a great hard rock band, who was?
Also, to claim Zep didn't write great songs is dumb and to say a riff-based song is somehow inferior is arbitrary and foolish. Zep had great riff-based songs and great non-riff-based songs. BTW, the heavier riff-rockers were often JP Jones riffs (e.g. Hearbreaker and Black Dog).
Zeppelin were leagues ahead of most other bands of that time musician-wise, rhythmically, improvisationally, harmonically and flat out rocking awesome riffs.

Matt R. said:
Wow. An opinion, only presented as a definitive fact.:rolleyes:
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#116
People that think Page had no soul or was sloppy would be well advised to listen to:
Lead breaks on "Since I've Been Lovin' you"
The slide rhythm and lead guitar on "When the Levee Breaks"
The jazzy, dorian solo on "No Quarter"

Page was head and shoulders above many of his contemporaries, and was widely recognized for it at the time.

It seems trendy to bash him now that time has passed, while forgetting that he had the respect of the top players of the day.
 
#117
First off, and so as to not go TOO off-topic, JPJ is my hero and Led Zeppelin is one of the most influental bands of all time, like it or not.

That said, a few folks here have cited 'Gallows Pole' as an example of the band's writing...only problem is the fact that they didn't write it. Versions of the song go back to the 1930's, at least. They DID alter the ending a bit (most prior versions have the protagonist living), but that's all.
 
#118
Hoover said:
As long as we're splitting hairs -- and really, is there anything else an internet forum does other than allow anonymous folks to split hairs? -- I think it's a bit inaccurate to refer to JPJ as an "early" adopter of the 8-string bass. He didn't start playing 8-string bass until what, 1975? 1976? Noel Redding was playing a Hagstrom 8-string in 1968.

I will concede that JPJ is one of the most fervent embracers of the 8-string...he's perhaps that instruments most enthusiastic user.
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Consider the hair split. :p

The intent behind my post was essentially that John Paul Jones, taken as a whole, has contributed much more to the role of bass player than just cool bass lines. Where he falls in the chronological order of 8-string adoption is really not relevant. His use of it is the point along with all the other things I mentioned - as I am sure you know.

RE: JPJ and the litany of reasons he is worthy of respect, praise, emulation and admiration, the bottom line is simple - he's earned it and deserves it.
 
#120
Schizoid75 said:
Well, ignoring the whole Page/Plant/Zeppelin discussion and getting back to John Paul Jones, has anyone checked out his more recent solo work, Zooma or The Thunderthief? They came out in 1999 and 2001 on the Discipline Global Mobile label and it's some pretty cool stuff. Going only on the basis of these two albums it sounds like JPJ was the most progressive member of Zep even though I think Page tends to get the credit for that.

Plus, listen to all the instruments JPJ is credited with on the liner notes of The Thunderthief: 4, 6, 10, and 12-string basses, acoustic and electric guitars, mandolin, tripleneck mandolin (***?), electric mandola, piano, organ, synth, Kyma, koto, autoharp, and ukelele.
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I've heard that album, I don't particularly like it but I def caught all of the instruments he played...that's crazy. That's the kind of stuff he did with Zep that made their studio albums much better: EP, mandolin, etc. (See: No Quarter). He even played the EP live, and it was great. Probably one of the better all-around musicians in rock, ever.

Concerning this discussion over Zeppelin and personal taste: different strokes for different folks. No one can't deny both bands' insane influence on music since, and they have different redeeming qualities summed up by this quote from my guitar player:

"When you hum a Zeppelin song you hum the riff; when you hum a Who song, you hum the (vocal) melody."

He's spot on...nobody can say which is "better," cause ultimately they are really different monsters.
 

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