Schroeder Cabinets ... smart design = very compact ! (regular and lights)

[Passinwind]

but for the majority..it seems that you are going into a PA, and indeed the room sound is mixed directly through this.

now the reason I am asking is that I am in a group that mixes several sorts of instruments..turntables..acoustic reed instruments..acoustic drums..and I also play synth bass as well as bass guitar. It is imperative that the mix is the most important thing..obviously the reed player and the turntablist don't carry their own amplifiers (ok, maybe NOT so obvious to some) so..in this instance, where exactly does the cabinet fit in? I guess I could see it as an onstage bass monitor for myself..but there are sidefills and wedges for that purpose..anyone care to comment here?

I nearly always go through the PA when I use my 1210, using a DI pre-EQ in the standard fashion, never miking the cab. This is generally in a 300 seat club, and while the cab will suffice on its own, the sound man and I both prefer to let the big PA do the heavy lifting, and the sound guy earn his pay. In your situation, the sidefills and wedges could maybe be used more effectively if less bass input is eating headroom. If the monitors are truly up to the task though, perhaps you don't need an amp on stage at all? Otherwise, you could look at the cab as a bass monitor for everyone, not just yourself, eh? That's pretty much how I use it, in any case.

 

[johnp352]

I nearly always go through the PA when I use my 1210, using a DI pre-EQ in the standard fashion, never miking the cab. This is generally in a 300 seat club, and while the cab will suffice on its own, the sound man and I both prefer to let the big PA do the heavy lifting, and the sound guy earn his pay. In your situation, the sidefills and wedges could maybe be used more effectively if less bass input is eating headroom. If the monitors are truly up to the task though, perhaps you don't need an amp on stage at all? Otherwise, you could look at the cab as a bass monitor for everyone, not just yourself, eh? That's pretty much how I use it, in any case.

could you tell me what kind of music do you play in that 300 seat club? As far as monitoring the bass through the Schroader, I am again confused. if I use the cab as "my" personal bass monitor..pulling the bass out of the sidefills/wedges, what I hear is going to be a lot different then what the reed player who is 20 feet away , will hear..and again you are dealing with the problem of stage volume and bleed.

 

[BurningSkies]

I am absolutely intrigued by the responses these cabinets are generating..118 pages of comments! I went to the site, and I am even more impressed by the variety of people using them. But I have a question of all you Schroader users here:

The glowing testimonials about stage volume/low end are amazing. I am assuming though, that none of you are going through a PA. At the stage volume a lot of posts are claiming, the first thing the sound guy would do is pull you out of the PA mix. This of course depends on the size of the venue, and I have duly noted that a lot of you are reviewing these cabs based on your garage rehearsal sites. So..are you mic'ing the cabs because you love the sound? Or do in fact most of you perform without a PA? I have tried to discern whether or not the reviewer is in a wedding band, where the only thing in the PA is the vocals..or a metal band where nobdy cares because the guitar is so loud that you have to be blaring on stage..or a lite jazz thing where there really is no PA..but for the majority..it seems that you are going into a PA, and indeed the room sound is mixed directly through this.

now the reason I am asking is that I am in a group that mixes several sorts of instruments..turntables..acoustic reed instruments..acoustic drums..and I also play synth bass as well as bass guitar. It is imperative that the mix is the most important thing..obviously the reed player and the turntablist don't carry their own amplifiers (ok, maybe NOT so obvious to some) so..in this instance, where exactly does the cabinet fit in? I guess I could see it as an onstage bass monitor for myself..but there are sidefills and wedges for that purpose..anyone care to comment here?

We usually have full PA support for most of the clubs we play, anytime we don't, we're usually playing private parties or such. I usually go direct to PA from my head, and usually the only additional bass on stage goes to our drummer's monitor, he's pretty deaf, and everyone else can hear from my cab. I don't usually mic my cab, just to get along with the sound man, also, I figure if something goes wrong with my amp, I'm still out front. The angled speaker seems to help with close-range dispersion of the low, so you can hear well on stage as well as 20 feet out.

 

[natrab]

I went with no sigs on the dust caps to keep it more in the trace style. I just wanted the logo so people would know who made the cabs. I have trace badges for it as well, but I don't think I'm gonna put them on.

Oh yeah, and I like to call em "Troeders" (tm as well)

 

[James Hart]

I went with no sigs on the dust caps to keep it more in the trace style. I just wanted the logo so people would know who made the cabs. I have trace badges for it as well, but I don't think I'm gonna put them on.

Oh yeah, and I like to call em "Troeders" (tm as well)

Very cool, I'm a little envious... I had requested tweed myself. I'm going to recover them myself one of these days

The stack looks KILLER!

 

[Passinwind]

could you tell me what kind of music do you play in that 300 seat club? As far as monitoring the bass through the Schroeder, I am again confused. if I use the cab as "my" personal bass monitor..pulling the bass out of the sidefills/wedges, what I hear is going to be a lot different then what the reed player who is 20 feet away , will hear..and again you are dealing with the problem of stage volume and bleed.

At that venue, I play hip-hop, jazz fusion, funk, folk, country, surf, blues, techno, classic rock, and lots of stuff that's impossible to describe. Only the surf stuff is very loud on stage, and I've basically punted that band at this point for that reason. I've generally found putting much bass through the monitors to create way more problems with bleed, loud stage volume, and mud from phase cancellation than just playing at a reasonable volume that everyone on stage can hear fine. The Schroeders are well liked for providing relatively even coverage over a wide area, so in your case the reed man may hear very much what you do, or at least more so than with many other cabs. Like Burning Skies, my drummer gets a little extra in his monitor though.

I don't have a good feel yet for your situation though, and it still sounds like maybe you don't really need an amp on stage at all? What do you expect/want the Schroeder to do for you?

 

[johnp352]

We usually have full PA support for most of the clubs we play, anytime we don't, we're usually playing private parties or such. I usually go direct to PA from my head, and usually the only additional bass on stage goes to our drummer's monitor, he's pretty deaf, and everyone else can hear from my cab. I don't usually mic my cab, just to get along with the sound man, also, I figure if something goes wrong with my amp, I'm still out front. The angled speaker seems to help with close-range dispersion of the low, so you can hear well on stage as well as 20 feet out.

So again, and please correct me if I am wrong here..you use the cabinet (in this case 2 cabs, as I see you also have an avatar) for onstage monitoring for the rest of the band..and that the dispersion of the Shroeder (as was commented on by several others in the 118 pages of comments) is the same across approx 20 feet or so on stage, at different angles..that is absolutely amazing to me. I have never heard of anything like that.

btw, nice bass influences in your info..Flabba Holt..Family Man..ever listen to Boris Gardiner?

 

[John D Harris]

I am absolutely intrigued by the responses these cabinets are generating..118 pages of comments! I went to the site, and I am even more impressed by the variety of people using them. But I have a question of all you Schroader users here:

The glowing testimonials about stage volume/low end are amazing. I am assuming though, that none of you are going through a PA. At the stage volume a lot of posts are claiming, the first thing the sound guy would do is pull you out of the PA mix. This of course depends on the size of the venue, and I have duly noted that a lot of you are reviewing these cabs based on your garage rehearsal sites. So..are you mic'ing the cabs because you love the sound? Or do in fact most of you perform without a PA? I have tried to discern whether or not the reviewer is in a wedding band, where the only thing in the PA is the vocals..or a metal band where nobdy cares because the guitar is so loud that you have to be blaring on stage..or a lite jazz thing where there really is no PA..but for the majority..it seems that you are going into a PA, and indeed the room sound is mixed directly through this.

now the reason I am asking is that I am in a group that mixes several sorts of instruments..turntables..acoustic reed instruments..acoustic drums..and I also play synth bass as well as bass guitar. It is imperative that the mix is the most important thing..obviously the reed player and the turntablist don't carry their own amplifiers (ok, maybe NOT so obvious to some) so..in this instance, where exactly does the cabinet fit in? I guess I could see it as an onstage bass monitor for myself..but there are sidefills and wedges for that purpose..anyone care to comment here?

You'll probably find "all of the above" responses.
I only had PA support one time and it wasn't really needed (just a god-complex soundguy).
I've done small to medium club gigs and three outside gigs with no PA support.
1600W into a Schroeder 410.

As far as what you would need, it's just a matter of what tone/sound/volume you're after.

The Schroeders project amazingly well, especially on stage.
Sometimes I need to make sure the rest of the band is to my left (the direction the angled baffle points) for them to hear me if I playing a bit softer.

P.S. Sorry; most of this was straight ahead Rock, some classic rock, blues, R&B, alt. country, & a little funk.
Couple of Marshall half stacks and a pretty loud drummer.

 

[BurningSkies]

So again, and please correct me if I am wrong here..you use the cabinet (in this case 2 cabs, as I see you also have an avatar) for onstage monitoring for the rest of the band..and that the dispersion of the Shroeder (as was commented on by several others in the 118 pages of comments) is the same across approx 20 feet or so on stage, at different angles..that is absolutely amazing to me. I have never heard of anything like that.

btw, nice bass influences in your info..Flabba Holt..Family Man..ever listen to Boris Gardiner?

I love me some Black Ark reggae!

I actually don't use that Avatar anymore...I found after using both cabs that the Avatar couldn't keep up with the Schroeder. I can get cleaner, lower with the Schroeder by itself, so the Avatar has become a backup in the practice room. Yeah, the Schroeder does some neat stuff, on stage its very present, once again, I think this is due to the angled speaker, its also got a low-mid bump that helps onstage too.

These days I'm playing a Dingwall 5, and the low B isn't even an issue...the 1212 shrugs at it like it was nothing.

If I were you, I'd drop an E to Jorg, he's a super nice guy and could give you plenty of insight on things. I love my 1212 for its size combined with its sound...and am considering a 21012 in the future for a bit more low but to keep things clean.

 

[johnp352]

You'll probably find "all of the above" responses.
I only had PA support one time and it wasn't really needed (just a god-complex soundguy).
I've done small to medium club gigs and three outside gigs with no PA support.
1600W into a Schroeder 410.

As far as what you would need, it's just a matter of what tone/sound/volume you're after.

The Schroeders project amazingly well, especially on stage.
Sometimes I need to make sure the rest of the band is to my left (the direction the angled baffle points) for them to hear me if I playing a bit softer.

P.S. Sorry; most of this was straight ahead Rock, some classic rock, blues, R&B, alt. country, & a little funk.
Couple of Marshall half stacks and a pretty loud drummer.

that's absolutely amazing..with one of these cabinets..you played outside, with no PA, against 2 marshall 1/2 stacks and a loud drummer..and people could hear you?

 

[troll]

Hey Troll,
How heavy is that 310212? Is it awkward to lug around? I have one on order, but can't seem to get a definative answer on the weight (even from Jorg!) I've heard it's around 100 lbs. but no hard specs have been posted. Man, I can't wait to get that cab! No more 8x10 for me!!!! How do you like the sound of it? Maybe you could do some kind of review for us? If you have the time, I mean! There aren't a whole lot of posts about the 310212 on here...mostly the smaller cabs.

Not trying to shrug you off or anything, but I have several mini reviews farther back in the thread form when I first got it, from when I first opened it up, etc. I've only recently been able to really push it and see what it can really do (as mentioned in the last mini review a few pages back). It's lighter than either one of my BXT cabs. It is about 100lbs, but I haven't weighed it. I don't have casters on yet and the position of the handles does make it odd to carry. It'd be nice if they were halfway down instead at the top. I can carry it myself if need be, but prefer to have another body grab a side.

The sound and volume are worth the 'hassle' (as little as it is to me really) of lugging it around. I play in a pretty loud metal band, granted only one guitarist, but that makes me being in the mix on stage and in the room that much more important.

 

[John D Harris]

that's absolutely amazing..with one of these cabinets..you played outside, with no PA, against 2 marshall 1/2 stacks and a loud drummer..and people could hear you?

Before the biggest of the three outdoor gigs (this was my first time to play the Schroeder at a gig), I was doing some knob tweaking and just playing by myself. The drummer was walking around out in the crowd, probably 60 or 70 feet out from where we were setup and he said I was coming through 'loud & clear' -- at that point I wasn't really turned up that loud for where I was standing (maybe 10 feet from the cab).

Yes, it is amazing!

 

[Jonesy4fnk]

+1 on the amazing projection of these cabs......my world music band immediately noticed that they could all hear my 1212 from everywhere on our rehearsal stage...which meant I could turn down from my usual volume as well.

I'm lost without it this week as its being exchanged for the non-airhead version.

 

[johnp352]

+1 on the amazing projection of these cabs......my world music band immediately noticed that they could all hear my 1212 from everywhere on our rehearsal stage...which meant I could turn down from my usual volume as well.

I'm lost without it this week as its being exchanged for the non-airhead version.

1) how big is your rehearsal stage? are you spread out all over the place?

2) why are you exchanging it? airhead sound different rom the other?

btw Naked Jungle..very cool...is the guy playing marimba on the first track/ or is that a midi thang?

 

[johnp352]

I love me some Black Ark reggae!
snip
If I were you, I'd drop an E to Jorg, he's a super nice guy and could give you plenty of insight on things. I love my 1212 for its size combined with its sound...and am considering a 21012 in the future for a bit more low but to keep things clean.

thanks Bill, I will..I was hoping some of the players who you use these for serious bass (dub..dnb..HH...) would chime in here. Usually what happens is that in order for player "a" , who is 20 feet across the stage and a foot or two behind the amp to hear me as i would like, i would have to turn up too loud, thereby being taken out of the mix due to excess stage volume, and with a blend of acoustic/electronic/and ...bass guitar..it gets really strange..the mix out front is my main concern..followed by enough low end (I do dub/dnb/freefahnk) so that I can get the feeling.

 

[tallboybass]

Sorry to barge in here, but I picked up a 1210 off of Ebay last week and it should be here tomorrow. I'm looking forward to being able to do all my big gigs with one cab. If it's as good as everyone says, there will be a few 210s for sale soon. I've got a Mesa WalkAbout and a GK 1001RB-II to choose from for power and an EA Wizzy for small gigs.

 

[Jonesy4fnk]

1) how big is your rehearsal stage? are you spread out all over the place?

2) why are you exchanging it? airhead sound different rom the other?

btw Naked Jungle..very cool...is the guy playing marimba on the first track/ or is that a midi thang?

1) we were rehearsing on a 24x30ft stage area roughly, and there are 3-4 drummers/percussionists, a guitarist, didgeridoo/kubing player, vocalists, keyboards, samplers, etc spread everywhere. This was with my band Telesma (myspace.com/telesma).

2) its being exchanged because my Ampeg head is too deep for the airhead's rack space area. Its actually going to be better on my back, since the combined weight of the cab and that amp were around 115lbs. No sound difference that I know of.

Thanks for checking out, Naked Jungle, that band is a 3 piece group, 2 drummers and me. The marimba was being played on a Roland electronic kit, each of the drummers has both an acoustic kit and electric kit onstage.....its crazy. I play my MIDI Brubaker 6 string bass, upright bass, a theremin, and percussion with that group.

 

[BurningSkies]

thanks Bill, I will..I was hoping some of the players who you use these for serious bass (dub..dnb..HH...) would chime in here. Usually what happens is that in order for player "a" , who is 20 feet across the stage and a foot or two behind the amp to hear me as i would like, i would have to turn up too loud, thereby being taken out of the mix due to excess stage volume, and with a blend of acoustic/electronic/and ...bass guitar..it gets really strange..the mix out front is my main concern..followed by enough low end (I do dub/dnb/freefahnk) so that I can get the feeling.

The 1212 takes a little pushing to get the low lows out of it. It naturally seems to do best in the low mid area. This is the most 'modern' sounding cab I've used, and I would compare the sound to tight 4x10. It CAN produce those lows, but I find myself having to EQ them in a bit more than I would with a different set up. The cab is not anemic in the lows at all...its just tighter than I'm used to.

I usually set my rig up facing straight out to the audience, and have it set roughly parallel to our drummer, so its not behind him but roughly even with his kick drum (so he sits behind it). I have tried to turn the cab so it projects across stage at a diagonal, and found it wasn't needed (the rest of the band found it too loud that way).

Lately we haven't had many side fills for the drums since we've been doing smaller clubs and private gigs, but it hasn't been a problem. A few weeks back, we did an outdoor gig and we played across a narrow porch so we were quite spread out across about 25 feet wide by 5 feet deep, and at the other end of the 'stage' there was no difficulty in hearing me.

The other night when I was runnin' riddim with the yardies, I wasn't pushing my volume but wasn't in the PA either and it was fine...AND none of the singers had any complaints about my bass tone. All could hear on stage even though we had a LOUD drummer and a second guy on hand drums to.

I've toyed with the notion of adding a second small cab to go with this that would give a more 'traditional' sound, so I could get the best of both worlds, but haven't found a cab that I thought would keep up. That Avatar sounded great with the Schroeder at lower volume (small room & practice) but once I got to playing volume it was easily apparent that it wasn't in the same league as the 1212.

 

[johnp352]

The 1212 takes a little pushing to get the low lows out of it. It naturally seems to do best in the low mid area. This is the most 'modern' sounding cab I've used, and I would compare the sound to tight 4x10. It CAN produce those lows, but I find myself having to EQ them in a bit more than I would with a different set up. The cab is not anemic in the lows at all...its just tighter than I'm used to.

I usually set my rig up facing straight out to the audience, and have it set roughly parallel to our drummer, so its not behind him but roughly even with his kick drum (so he sits behind it). I have tried to turn the cab so it projects across stage at a diagonal, and found it wasn't needed (the rest of the band found it too loud that way).

Lately we haven't had many side fills for the drums since we've been doing smaller clubs and private gigs, but it hasn't been a problem. A few weeks back, we did an outdoor gig and we played across a narrow porch so we were quite spread out across about 25 feet wide by 5 feet deep, and at the other end of the 'stage' there was no difficulty in hearing me.

The other night when I was runnin' riddim with the yardies, I wasn't pushing my volume but wasn't in the PA either and it was fine...AND none of the singers had any complaints about my bass tone. All could hear on stage even though we had a LOUD drummer and a second guy on hand drums to.

I've toyed with the notion of adding a second small cab to go with this that would give a more 'traditional' sound, so I could get the best of both worlds, but haven't found a cab that I thought would keep up. That Avatar sounded great with the Schroeder at lower volume (small room & practice) but once I got to playing volume it was easily apparent that it wasn't in the same league as the 1212.

again , thanks for the real whirl review. there's been quite a bit here about the need for only one cab, yet when I cruised the site..a lot of players were going through two. The idea here being a great sound in ONE small box that allows everyone to hear, but not so loud as to being taken out of the mix in the space..which is the real sound on any gig.

 

[BurningSkies]

again , thanks for the real whirl review. there's been quite a bit here about the need for only one cab, yet when I cruised the site..a lot of players were going through two. The idea here being a great sound in ONE small box that allows everyone to hear, but not so loud as to being taken out of the mix in the space..which is the real sound on any gig.

Well...I think we bass players suffer from a specific disorder...if one cab sounds fine and is loud enough, then having two must be twice as good.