As far as the appearance goes, I don’t think EBMM should be permitted to enforce a trademark on a feature that isn’t patented or even patentable. Trademark is not meant to cover design or mechanics, that’s what patents are for, patents aren’t meant to cover obvious inventions, and design patents expire, so the StingRay design, even if it had been covered by a patent, by all rights should be in the public domain at this point, nearly 50 years later.
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This is interesting... Sire MM Bass???
- Thread starter LAST_C
- Start date
The StingRay is the most beautiful bass guitar ever designed. It is absolutely perfectly balanced, and from a design perspective, absolutely iconic.
Imagine being turned off by the name of a famous bassist on the front of your instrument, but being totally fine with the name of a company owner on it. My StingRay very clearly says “Ernie Ball” on the headstock. At least Marcus Miller can shred.
That’s not how it works. You infringed on their trade dress, regardless of what your intention was.
Yes, he can. So what?
I'm not really into his music and don't like his name in HUGE font on the front of the headstock.
I can't think of any bass that does not have the company name on the front of it, can you?
I also think it’s strange to have Marcus Millers’s name on the headstock since he never played a Stingray. On a jazz bass or on his signature model I can understand, but why on other models too? It doesn’t make sense.
Actually, there is a video of Marcus working out on a Stingray somewhere out there in video land.
Of course he sounded great, sounded like him. It’s the only video like that I’ve ever seen, so I don’t know if it can be said that “Marcus played Stingrays”. But I know he had his hands on at least one….
It's not a StingRay. It's not even a StingRay copy. Ernie Ball never played a StingRay, either, but there's his name right on the headstock of my StingRay. He played guitar, pedal steel, and bass drum in the Army.
People are funny.
People are funny.
I spent some time looking around at the budget to mid priced 5-string bass market last night, and I realized they is nothing else on the market that comes even remotely close to the specs of the Z7 in that price range of $700-800 USD.
I even looked at building a Warmoth Deluxe J5…$976 just for the body and neck! SBMM Ray35? String spacing too narrow, ugly, and even more expensive. Ibanez SR? String spacing too narrow. Warwick RockBass? Too narrow and double the price. Lakland Skyline? Double the price, and 35" scale. Might as well get the used Fender Kazuki Arai Deluxe Jazz Bass V from Japan that's on Fleeceverb for $1200-some and pay the freight and customs. Used Fender American Deluxe 1998-2009? Can't find one asking less than $1800-2000.
Maybe I can find a used Fender MIM Dimension V for a reasonable price, but I won't hold my breath, and I still won't get a matching headstock, ebony board, stainless frets, etc.
Yeah, a used MIM Dimension V can be had for $850-900 USD, but no ebony, no stainless, no matching headstock, no second pickup, and arguably uglier looks, overall.
I think I'll keep my ear to the ground and hope to pick up some Warmoth Deluxe 5Js used for a song that I can part out and make 1-2 beaters out of. That would honestly be ideal.
I even looked at building a Warmoth Deluxe J5…$976 just for the body and neck! SBMM Ray35? String spacing too narrow, ugly, and even more expensive. Ibanez SR? String spacing too narrow. Warwick RockBass? Too narrow and double the price. Lakland Skyline? Double the price, and 35" scale. Might as well get the used Fender Kazuki Arai Deluxe Jazz Bass V from Japan that's on Fleeceverb for $1200-some and pay the freight and customs. Used Fender American Deluxe 1998-2009? Can't find one asking less than $1800-2000.
Maybe I can find a used Fender MIM Dimension V for a reasonable price, but I won't hold my breath, and I still won't get a matching headstock, ebony board, stainless frets, etc.
Yeah, a used MIM Dimension V can be had for $850-900 USD, but no ebony, no stainless, no matching headstock, no second pickup, and arguably uglier looks, overall.
I think I'll keep my ear to the ground and hope to pick up some Warmoth Deluxe 5Js used for a song that I can part out and make 1-2 beaters out of. That would honestly be ideal.
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I think its pretty clearly in the Stingray copy camp.
Ernie Ball Music Man is the company name. Sure the company name is on the headstock. In this case Sire is the company and Marcus Miller is the artist. Or at least thats how it seems to me. Either way I don't have any issue with his name on the headstock. It makes no difference to me.
Clearly inspired to some extent by the StingRay, yes, but a "copy"? No, not any more than a Lakland is a copy of a StingRay, or any other bolt-on neck solid body guitar with an MM style pickup and an active preamp is a copy of a StingRay. The Fender Dimension is as much a copy of a StingRay as the Sire Z is, as far as I'm concerned.
And it makes no difference to me whether or not there's a artist name on the headstock or the company founder's name, a man's name is a man's name. I think the objection is patently silly, and IMO his name isn't "huge" on the headstock, either. Plenty of logos on headstocks have been bigger.
I'm not a particular fan of Marcus Miller, but I don't have any animus against him, either. I used to own a Sabian Jack DeJohnette signature symbol; I had no idea who he even was until after I bought it.
It’s clearly meant as a Stingray copy. Everyone can see that. They altered some slight things just give it a bit of a different look and maybe also because they might get in trouble with Musicman. The same way as the other new semi acoustic bass is a Godin copy.
It’s a MMSO!
Musicman shaped object! I’d say it’s definitely different enough, the preamp is as “signature” as Fenders headstock, and this doesn’t have it.
EBMM brought all this on themselves when they basically vacated the price/quality point where these Sires are going to sit. I'm game for a Z7. I like Sire stuff already, I've got a D5, which in my opinion is the best value '51/'54 Precision-esque bass out there right now. I'm confident they'll hit another home run.
Actually, there is a video of Marcus working out on a Stingray somewhere out there in video land.
Of course he sounded great, sounded like him. It’s the only video like that I’ve ever seen, so I don’t know if it can be said that “Marcus played Stingrays”. But I know he had his hands on at least one….
Marcus played fretless StingRays and Sterlings in concert for years before he got his Sire deal. He also played Fretless Jazz basses.
ok, that's correct I guess. He also played Kramer, Modulus and Sadowsky fretless basses. But he is known for his fretted jazz bass not a Stingray.
Had it occurred to anyone that these aren't "signature" instruments in the way we typically use that term? It could just be that Marcus Miller is invested in getting quality instruments to people at a decent price and is happy to put his name on that endeavour as a whole?
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