Am I wrong?

[james condino]

You'll have no problem finding another argumentative couple that books unpaid open mics.....

 

[Jazzdogg]

If there's one thing I've learned in 35+ years of doing live music it's this. Never, EVER, work with a band that has a COUPLE as band leaders. Never again. No, thank you.

I'm not even going to work with a band if the BL's SO has ANYTHING to do with the band. Nope.

All that said, I'm confused. Have you never played much classic rock? Something doesn't add up. You took weeks to get up to speed on the material. But they're just going to grab a guy from the audience to do the same stuff?

Lesson learned after 54 years as a bassist: even if a significant other has no formal relationship with the band, they can wreak havok on a band just by being unstable, crazy, or both!

 

[wintremute]

I think there's one thing that most all of the people replying here seem to be missing, or at least they're glossing over it.

Band.
B-A-N-D.
BAND.

Unless there was a different, specific agreement from the start between you and your bandmates regarding situations like this one, or simply anything that might require substitutes, then it is my understanding that a band is a cohesive unit that cannot function if it's missing any of its elements. At least that's how it should be and how it's always done in any of my bands. Communication is the key, and if anyone can't make it at a given date then it's a no-go regardless of the scope, caliber, pay, record sales, merch sales or promises of other opportunities, everlasting fame and fortune, future inclusions into different Halls of Fame, etc.

I don't think it's a situation that people are missing or glossing over. I think that for some people, they just don't view it the way you (and the OP) do.

My singer (backup guitarist) and guitarist (backup singer) would go to open mics as a duo, and use our band name. They liked taking songs and trying them acoustically, or trying different things. Sometimes the drummer and I would show up to offer support. My band name was out in public in front of people, so I saw that as a win.

A couple of times the singer (playing guitar) and I did an open mic, and we used the band name. It was fun. The other guys in the band had no issue with this.

Maybe it's because I have confidence in my bandmates that they'll look good even if I'm not there, and the confidence in myself to not worry that I might be replaced if I'm not there. The more they want to do to get our band name out there and seen and heard makes me want to do more to get my band name out there seen and heard.

But you and OP have different views, and that's fine. OP quit his band, so hopefully he will find a group of more like-minded people where he will feel that he is a better fit.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think there's one thing that most all of the people replying here seem to be missing, or at least they're glossing over it.

Band.
B-A-N-D.
BAND.

Nope. I think what people are missing is that it's highly unusual for a full band to play an open mic. They're usually not equipped for drums and bass. It's not at all unusual for a smaller subset of your players to go out to these events.

The other thing people are missing is that an open mic isn't a performance, per se. It's a bunch of people getting together to share the excitement of being on a stage. It's not a very big deal, anyone can participate, and definitely not something that rises to a level to get bent over not being able to be there.

 

[Renaissance]

I think the real issue is the OP felt betrayed by his "band". I doesn't really matter if it was an open mic or a goat roping. After two months of twice a week rehearsals, the other members decide to go public when the bass player can't make it - after giving them plenty of notice that he was unavailable. They could have just as easily waited one more week.

I say good riddance.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think the real issue is the OP felt betrayed by his "band". I doesn't really matter if it was an open mic or a goat roping. After two months of twice a week rehearsals, the other members decide to go public when the bass player can't make it - after giving them plenty of notice that he was unavailable. They could have just as easily waited one more week.

I say good riddance.

It does matter. An open mic is just a fun thing to do. It's not a big premiere, your band isn't running ads about your big show, you're there to hone your chops. It's the kind of thing someone will remember at the last minute and say "hey, why don't we go down to <wherever> and see if we can play some of these songs in front of other people, see how they go over."

I don't see any betrayal here; I see an OP who is inexperienced and feels slighted because he doesn't understand the basics of how this stuff works.

But we won't agree on this. Some people will learn the hard way that trying to control what other people do is a fool's errand. His bandmates were well within their rights to go out for some musical fun and how the OP responded takes this open mic thing way too seriously.

What should have happened, IMO, is that the OP should have told them how he felt about it so they'd understand he's feeling sensitive about it. Then they could all agree that they'll go together next time. But if someone in a band I'm in said that, it'd be a real big red flag that someone takes himself far too seriously, and I'd see nothing but trouble down the road with that person, for that reason.

Nobody else gets to dictate when and where and with whom I go out to have some casual fun. The fact that it's musical fun is coincidental.

 

[Renaissance]

It does matter. An open mic is just a fun thing to do. It's not a big premiere, your band isn't running ads about your big show, you're there to hone your chops. I don't see any betrayal here; I see an OP who is inexperienced and feels slighted because he doesn't understand the basics of how this stuff works.

But we won't agree on this. Some people will learn the hard way that trying to control what other people do is a fool's errand.

I'm sorry but I do not subscribe to the theory that one's experience, is everyone's experience.

I've seen open mics where full bands - including the bass player - got up and played a few songs as a band. Whatever their reasoning, didn't really matter to me. Maybe it was a free audition for a booker, maybe they were auditioning players, maybe they saw it as their big premier, maybe they wanted to hone their chops as a band in a live environment, who knows. I think your definition of what an open mic is, is very rigid.

I agree the OP presents himself (in this post) as inexperienced and he got butt hurt over something that would not have bother someone else. I don't think he was trying to control anyone. I think he expected to be treated like a part of the "band", and he wasn't. Being excluded from the first public appearance, as well as some other issues was enough for him to pull the plug. I don't know the OP so I could be completely wrong!

I agree on another point also - we won't agree on this.

 

[LBS-bass]

I'm sorry but I do not subscribe to the theory that one's experience, is everyone's experience.

I've seen open mics where full bands - including the bass player - got up and played a few songs as a band. Whatever their reasoning, didn't really matter to me. Maybe it was a free audition for a booker, maybe they were auditioning players, maybe they saw it as their big premier, maybe they wanted to hone their chops as a band in a live environment, who knows. I think your definition of what an open mic is, is very rigid.

I agree the OP presents himself (in this post) as inexperienced and he got butt hurt over something that would not have bother someone else. I don't think he was trying to control anyone. I think he expected to be treated like a part of the "band", and he wasn't. Being excluded from the first public appearance, as well as some other issues was enough for him to pull the plug. I don't know the OP so I could be completely wrong!

I agree on another point also - we won't agree on this.

I've seen that too, which is why I say "usually." A good friend of mine was in the hosting band for a full band open mic on the east coast. It's rare. I've not seen one like that here. I've seen jams like that here, but that's a different animal.

I'm not "defining" an open mic. Most of us know what an open mic involves and I've described the typical scenario I've encountered many times in the past 40 years. Apparently the OP doesn't know this.

The first public appearance? That's a little precious for what's most likely just a casual situation at a local pub. If the OP got butthurt over that he's got a lot to learn because yes, he is being controlling, by suggesting his bandmates can only do something for fun if he is included. Expectations will get you every time. So change your expectations if you want to get along with others.

If they were my friends, I wouldn't blink. "Go have fun. I'll join in next time." That's the way friends treat each other.

Also, in 40 years I've never seen anyone scouted by a booking agent at an open mic. That's a place to hone your chops. Agents don't come to shows, and they sure don't go to open mics where most of the talent is going to be pretty green and, IME, barely listenable. They want demos. Who wants to go out and suffer through all that when you can simply request a video?

You don't hone your chops in front of the people you most want to impress. That should come later.

 

[wintremute]

I think the real issue is the OP felt betrayed by his "band". I doesn't really matter if it was an open mic or a goat roping. After two months of twice a week rehearsals, the other members decide to go public when the bass player can't make it - after giving them plenty of notice that he was unavailable. They could have just as easily waited one more week.

I say good riddance.

That is a very good point.

 

[LAST_C]

It does matter. An open mic is just a fun thing to do. It's not a big premiere, your band isn't running ads about your big show, you're there to hone your chops. It's the kind of thing someone will remember at the last minute and say "hey, why don't we go down to <wherever> and see if we can play some of these songs in front of other people, see how they go over."

I don't see any betrayal here; I see an OP who is inexperienced and feels slighted because he doesn't understand the basics of how this stuff works.

But we won't agree on this. Some people will learn the hard way that trying to control what other people do is a fool's errand. His bandmates were well within their rights to go out for some musical fun and how the OP responded takes this open mic thing way too seriously.

What should have happened, IMO, is that the OP should have told them how he felt about it so they'd understand he's feeling sensitive about it. Then they could all agree that they'll go together next time. But if someone in a band I'm in said that, it'd be a real big red flag that someone takes himself far too seriously, and I'd see nothing but trouble down the road with that person, for that reason.

Nobody else gets to dictate when and where and with whom I go out to have some casual fun. The fact that it's musical fun is coincidental.

I don't consider myself inexperienced. I've been part of many bands in my 25+ years playing bass and have played from small bars with 10 people to small stadiums, fairs and auditoriums with 3000+ people.

I also don't consider myself a hired gun. If we do things as a band, then we all participate. Had they said, ahead of time what they planned, then we could've discussed it. My concept of a band is all for one, all in all the time, but again, there are people who see things differently and that's fine.

 

[bassicmike]

The 2xweek rehearsal schedule would be a deal killer for me.

 

[turf3]

I think the real issue is the OP felt betrayed by his "band". I doesn't really matter if it was an open mic or a goat roping. After two months of twice a week rehearsals, the other members decide to go public when the bass player can't make it - after giving them plenty of notice that he was unavailable. They could have just as easily waited one more week.

I say good riddance.

Well, that whole "all for one, one for all, we're a band like a family and no one gets in, no one gets out" thing is fun when you're a bunch of bored students hanging out smoking weed and pretending you're going to be the next Beatles or Dead.

Once you grow up, it's time to put away childish things. Bands don't "betray" you. They might STEAL from you, they might do other things. But it's not a marriage. The rest of the guys want to go do an open mike night when you're away? fine. No issues. Have fun, y'all. They get a paying gig while you're away? You help the sub out, let him have your charts, or whatever. What goes around comes around, and the sub may need YOU to sub some day. Now if they get a paying gig on a day when you're available and they don't call you for the job, that merits some discussion.

 

[LBS-bass]

I don't consider myself inexperienced. I've been part of many bands in my 25+ years playing bass and have played from small bars with 10 people to small stadiums, fairs and auditoriums with 3000+ people.

I also don't consider myself a hired gun. If we do things as a band, then we all participate. Had they said, ahead of time what they planned, then we could've discussed it. My concept of a band is all for one, all in all the time, but again, there are people who see things differently and that's fine.

I would say that most of us see things differently, because of what Turf3 said, below. Twenty-five years of experience and you're calling an open mic a gig? In some ways this disturbs me even more.

The commitment level you're seeking is inappropriate, in my view. Your bandmates went out to have some fun while you weren't even around, and it pissed you off. They don't get to set the schedule for the open mic, they have no control over when that happens versus when your plane gets in.

I wouldn't want to be in a band with someone who is this high-maintenance.

 

[turf3]

... a band is a cohesive unit that cannot function if it's missing any of its elements. At least that's how it should be ...

Never played with a society band, GB band, or jazz band, have you?

Rule one - don't shake hands with the new sub on the bandstand, because it looks like you just met (you did).

Once I got out of my 20s, pretty much every band I've played with has used subs. One guy occasionally had three bands at a time playing under his name. He'd come in and do the first set with one band, hand over the leading to the lead alto player, move to the second gig, play a set, move to the third gig, play a set. "The band" ranged from the full 14 piece big band with boy and girl singers, through reduced versions of that, to the 5 piece combo, the Greek band, the Jewish Wedding band, the klezmer band, two or three different "rock and roll plus everything else" aggregations, even a Western Swing outfit (same as the big band, but with hats). No one got their knickers in a twist if he called someone else, or if he didn't call you. If it got to where he NEVER called you, you'd ring him up "Hey Lou, did I do something to pi$$ you off?" I asked him that once, and he said "No man, I'm just not getting those big gigs right now. Can't afford you these days. Still love you. I'll call you when I need you" and that was cool. Kept playing for him for years after that.

 

[LBS-bass]

It's slightly amusing to me how many grown adults are still afflicted with "Monkees syndrome," that is to say an idealized image of what a band should be like that's based on things they saw manufactured on television that weren't actually real.

Yes, we all remember the old Beatles movies and the Monkees and the Partridge Family and all of that other feel-good stuff that made us believe, as youths, that a band was some sort of rarified family experience. Maybe we longed for that sense of belonging and it's part of what propelled us toward playing music and putting our first band together.

But life is not like TV and movies. Bands aren't marriages. They aren't even families, though sometimes they fight like families. They aren't all best friends, either. Even the Beatles decided to go their separate ways when they got sick of each other.

This circles right back to the thing about changing your expectations. If this sort of fictionalized experience is what you're expecting, you're always going to be disappointed.

 

[turf3]

It's slightly amusing to me how many grown adults are still afflicted with "Monkees syndrome," that is to say an idealized image of what a band should be like that's based on things they saw manufactured on television that weren't actually real.

Yes, we all remember the old Beatles movies and the Monkees and the Partridge Family and all of that other feel-good stuff that made us believe, as youths, that a band was some sort of rarified family experience. Maybe we longed for that sense of belonging and it's part of what propelled us toward playing music and putting our first band together.

But life is not like TV and movies. Bands aren't marriages. They aren't even families, though sometimes they fight like families. They aren't all best friends, either. Even the Beatles decided to go their separate ways when they got sick of each other.

This circles right back to the thing about changing your expectations. If this sort of fictionalized experience is what you're expecting, you're always going to be disappointed.

And the thing is, if you can drop those fantasy expectations and be here now, you can have one hell of a lot of fun playing music in the real world, even if you're never going to be in one of those bands where they all live together in one big house (and, not mentioned, is that they also have a fleet of hippie chicks with low self-esteem who're willing to do all the chores and cooking for their men, just like it was 1950, except for the free love and no alimony...)

 

[Passinwind]

I've seen that too, which is why I say "usually." A good friend of mine was in the hosting band for a full band open mic on the east coast. It's rare. I've not seen one like that here. I've seen jams like that here, but that's a different animal.

"Open jam" and "open mic" are largely synonymous around here and either label could mean many different formats. Most are perfectly happy to allow whole bands and often provide enough backline to facilitate that somewhat, but 15 minutes including setup still makes that a tough sell in many cases IME. At the ones I ran we had very long hours and could just tell a full band "no problem, you're on at 1AM for half an hour minimum, longer if there's no one after you." Or bring in twenty people to watch and you're opening things up at 8, or anything between those examples.

 

[LBS-bass]

"Open jam" and "open mic" are largely synonymous around here and either label could mean many different formats. Most are perfectly happy to allow whole bands and often provide enough backline to facilitate that somewhat, but 15 minutes including setup still makes that a tough sell in many cases, IME. At the ones I ran we had very long hours and could just tell a full band "no problem, you're on at 1AM for half an hour minimum, longer if there's no one after you." Or bring in twenty people to watch and you're opening things up at 8, or anything between those examples.

Around here, and back east where I come from, an open jam was the only format where you might be put on stage with a total stranger whether you wanted to play with them or not. Typically whoever is doing the singing will be calling out repertoire and you just play along with whatever they call. Sometimes groups of people will show up together and ask the host if they can go up together - in that case they're treating the jam as though it's an open mic and the host will usually go along with it.

An open mic will be groups of people who show up with the intent to play together and who all have an agenda for repertoire. At an open mic here you will never be placed on stage with a stranger and you'll never be called upon to improvise on material you don't know.

That's the biggest difference between the two, as far as I can tell.

 

[LAST_C]

It amazes me how many bassists here think it's ok to go to an open mic, or any performance as a band without a bassist. How you can rehearse for weeks as a band just to go and grab a complete stranger to play bass or have no bass at all.

I guess I'm guilty of being committed and invested in the band and not being ok with being replaced with no need whatsoever. All I asked is to wait one more week. Is that too much to ask? I guess it is.

I'm ok with my decision. but again, it's interesting to read other's reactions to this thread. Carry on.

 

[gln1955]

Around here, and back east where I come from, an open jam was the only format where you might be put on stage with a total stranger whether you wanted to play with them or not. Typically whoever is doing the singing will be calling out repertoire and you just play along with whatever they call. Sometimes groups of people will show up together and ask the host if they can go up together - in that case they're treating the jam as though it's an open mic and the host will usually go along with it.

An open mic will be groups of people who show up with the intent to play together and who all have an agenda for repertoire. At an open mic here you will never be placed on stage with a stranger and you'll never be called upon to improvise on material you don't know.

That's the biggest difference between the two, as far as I can tell.

That's the deal here too. I frankly don't see the value in a cover band doing an open mic where they have to set everybody up to play three songs. Around here there are always places a band can play if they are willing to play during happy hour or during the week for drinks and gas money. That would seem to be a better place for a new band to get some stage time in.