Thunderbird Club

[JJR58]

I've got a couple Js and they just don't do it for me like I prefer. I hear them sound thick but I generally can't get that myself. I did put some TI Jazz Rounds on my '62 and it sounds pretty good. They add some real beef. Something Tbirds do easily.

Understood.

 

[JJR58]

I'll disagree, get the proper relief first and foremost, then adjust action from there.

If the neck has too much bow, it'll never play correctly.

But which way is it bowing?
And I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative. Didn't ever claim I know what I'm talking about.

 

[kat888]

Some might agree with that.
It's a good bass, just not happy with the p/ups.

DiMArzio Model Js? SD Quarter Pounders? ... or for something truly different, Lace Aluma_Js?

 

[ubernator]

The truss rod (relief) and string height (action) are two different things.

However, if it's only buzzing after the 12th, there's too much bow in the neck, so tighten the truss rod.

Then you'll have to likely adjust the action.

It's better to do actual measurements than just guessing. But you may be able to make it enjoyably playable by guessing.

I find it to be a game of whack a mole, fretwork and bumps in the board are also factors in 12+ fret buzz. Since my birds have all been employed at drop C with .115 .090 .070 .050, the trick is getting enough relief so the first 3-5 frets aren't buzzing. Ive been able to make that happen though. But the 2015 always had a few frets buzz really bad at the high end of the neck. Frets just needed to be filed I'm sure. I don't have that bird anymore. I have to maintain an N+1 equation that =2 unless things improve. 2 birds, 2 cases (in the vault, one of each style) and 2 rr1eb bags, of which the classic pro is a much tighter fit unfortunately, seems to be 1/4" longer than the bolt ons.

 

[DerekW]

But which way is it bowing?
And I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative. Didn't ever claim I know what I'm talking about.

Ha! Ditto.

But he said its buzzing after the 12th fret, so that would indicate too much bow in the neck.


Edit: or a ski jump.

 

[JJR58]

Ha! Ditto.

But he said its buzzing after the 12th fret, so that would indicate too much bow in the neck.


Edit: or a ski jump.

Makes total sense. Ski jump bad.

 

[Dadagoboi]

1.Truss rod is the last thing to compensate for.


2. edit; meaning the law of physics, there is more tension with high action, the neck tends to straighten a bit from lowering the saddles without an adjustment to the rod.

3. But, i'm the first to say i'm no expert on the matter.

1. Exactly the opposite approach is usually recommended.

2. Whaaaa?

3. Bingo.

 

[JJR58]

1. Exactly the opposite approach is usually recommended.

2. Whaaaa?

3. Bingo.

I truly thought it was the other way around.
Most necks I've dealt with have been pretty stable. So haven't had to do much in neck adjustment.

And what do I know. You'd think for as long as I've been playing.........
A luthier has always set up my bass in the past, it's only been recent that I've been, (cough), doing it myself.

 

[BklynKen]

The truss rod (relief) and string height (action) are two different things.

However, if it's only buzzing after the 12th, there's too much bow in the neck, so tighten the truss rod.

Then you'll have to likely adjust the action.

It's better to do actual measurements than just guessing. But you may be able to make it enjoyably playable by guessing.

Sorry, there was a misunderstanding. The action I find too high in the upper frets. I figured the only way to lower that is with the bridge saddles. Then I'd have to do a truss rod adjustment, since just lowering the saddles wreaks havoc.

 

[GBassNorth]

I'd like opinions on what I'm planning to do. With the truss rod, I can get the action on the lower frets pretty low, but towards the 12th and higher, it gets really high. I recently tried lowering the bridge saddles to alleviate that, but it was bad. Stupidly, I didn't think of also adjusting the truss rod to compensate, but not sure that would've helped. Thoughts?

Lots of advice on this thread about neck adjustments. I like my action very low so I might as well jump in with what has worked best for me... something I clipped from TB some time ago and modified heavily that has proven to be spot on for all my Gibby needs.

Do this...
1. Loosen the strings to a slack setting then adjust your truss rod to create a slight back bow. From a dead straight neck position it might take two or three 1/3 clockwise turns. BTW, it's clockwise as seen from the headstock end of the bass looking down the neck towards the bridge.

2. Next, lower your bridge until the rear of the bridge is just off the body and the front of the bridge is about 1/8" higher than the rear.

3. Bring your strings up to tension and tune each string (don't worry about intonation yet).

4. Now check your action around the 15th and higher frets to see if it's comfortable for you without any or too much buzz (some players don't mind a little buzz). Don't worry about buzzing in the lower registers at this point. Raise your bridge as necessary to eliminate unwanted fret buzz in the 15th to end of fretboard area but always make sure the front stud is keeping the front of the bridge at least 1/8" higher than the rear of the bridge.

Note: the saddles on the 3 point bridge are specific in height to each string to ensure the strings match the FB radius, they are sequentially numbered so check to make sure each one is in the proper position. Also note that it is much easier on you, the studs and your stud inserts to slightly loosen the strings before raising the bridge height. Yes that means you'll need to retune after each adjustment. As an alternate, you can start step 4 with the bridge in a higher position and keep lowering and tuning until you get the level of buzz in the 15th and higher frets that suits you. Just be sure to always keep the front stud higher than the rears.

5. Now you've got your bass retuned with a lower action at the high frets. Your lower frets will now either buzz (see 6a for the subsequent steps) or the action will still be too high even in the low registers (see 6b for the subsequent steps).

6a: Low Register buzzes: You need to loosen the truss rod. Take off the truss rod cover and insert an allen wrench in the allen nut (the cheaper Epis generally have allen nuts). Don't detune the bass for that, rather lift the A and the D string to the side to the slots of the G and E string to have room for turning the allen wrench. With the bass' butt resting on your toes and the strings/fretboard facing away from you, you - while standing up and looking down - will now turn the allen wrench counterclockwise maybe 1/3 of a turn and immediately look to find out how the action of the bass has altered and buzzing has become less or disappeared. Don't be scared of overdoing it - it is impossible to break a truss rod by loosening it as you are releasing tension. That said, one or two "one third turns" counterclockwise should do it. sometimes you will need a few more of those to actually adjust the bass if the neck is too straight or even curved away from the fretboard (called back bow).

6b: Low Register has too much action: Same as 6a, except that you have too tighten the truss rod now which is done by turning the allen wrench clockwise. You will also have to be more careful as you can break a trussrod by overtightening it. When tightening a truss rod its best to slacken the strings a bit first, then make your truss adjustment followed by retuning and checking to see if your adjustment eliminated unwanted fret buzz.

7. After a combination of either steps 5 and 6a or steps 5 and 6b you should have a relatively or even totally buzz free bass with good to reasonable action. If there is still some persistent buzzing at some places then raise the bridge a little. Raising the front stud will raise all strings (remember to slacken the strings first then after raising the front stud retune the bass). Raising the treble side rear stud just a very tiny bit more may help the D and G string, or raising the bass side rear stud just a tiny bit more may help the E and A strings. The bridge does not have to be dead level but it should be very very close.

8. You should be done... but if you're still getting buzzing just on one string (while the other strings are buzz-free) and you have to raise the bridge considerably to make it go away even though you could stay much lower if it were just for the other strings, then double check you're saddles to ensure they're in the proper sequence. In a pinch you might be able to swap the D and A saddles but only as a last resort. If you still have unwanted buzzing then your low action expectations may be too much or you might have a string or fret level or neck hump problem. See step 9 for string checking. For fret level or twisted neck or neck hump or ski jump problems find a good luthier and see if they can fix the problem.

9. Occasionally it's possible to twist a string when installing a them on a bass. A twisted string can potentially have an odd oscillation that may make it vibrate in more of an elliptical pattern vs a flatter pattern. In some cases the effect is great enough to cause fret buzz on that specific string. To fix this, detune the string and starting at the nut pinch the string between your fingers and slowly slide down the string towards the bridge allowing the ball end of the string to spin as needed to eliminate any accidental twist you may have put in the string when installing. Once untwisted, hold the ball end in position and retune the string without letting the ball flip or spin. This should eliminate any twist related issues.

Edit: follow all the above steps in order. Don't skip steps or start in the middle.

 

[Gaolee]

(Me not being a sports fan for the most part), Feel that way about most contact sports. To this day i especially don't understand boxing.
Human civilization, it's a bloody mess all around.

It is probably proof of immaturity, but I miss the violent collisions in football and rugby and lacrosse. I sure don't miss the next few days. Boxing is another thing altogether. I never tried it and don't understand the appeal of watching it. It is probably bad that I can see the appeal of doing it.

 

[Gaolee]

Agreed - "arrested adolescence" - anyone currently living in the US now sadly understands how destructive this is as a working reality. Otherwise,"nostalgia" is (mostly) harmlessly 'sold' as a concept, as an excuse for entertaining nostalgia that results in someone making money. In this respect, nostalgia is probably one of the biggest drivers of consuming out there - especially for the bulk of the 'baby-boomers' (as in, those with $$) still moving through the system. It will shift to the next generation eventually - that is what marketing does. It's a slippery slope adolescence - but one that's easy to target-market.

Technically I am a baby boomer, but never felt like one. I am going to be fascinated watching the shift in marketing as the boomers age out. They have expected to be the center of attention for a long time, and that has not changed. But Millinials will be a bigger, and therefore more commercially more important population soon. It will be a good shift. I am impressed with them so far. The world won't be easy for them, but they will handle it just fine. I really believe the world will be in good hands.

 

[theFixer]

I had to do it, done deal.
More details when I get home.

View attachment 2474828

NIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCE!!!

 

[theFixer]

I got a stupid deal with the trade in on this one. Was 299, they dropped it to just above 200, traded the bolt on and was 130 out of pocket.

Nice deal man!

 

[theFixer]

And I finally plugged her in, O!M!G!.

 

[Larry V]

I remember that as a small child in upstate NY. Early 80s, do you remember the exact year? I was born in 75, my memory goes back pretty far.

How far upstate? I lived in Troy from '69 through '84.

I'm a Capricorn & Jan 12. I don't get the one present thing but I get complaints about how hard it is to think of another present so soon after Christmas. They should be happy they can shop in the post Christmas sales.

One great thing is it's a top time of year for backyard parties. I appreciated that through the teens and twenties.
Oh, and I never went to school on my birthday.

Jan 3rd, here. JPJ and I share that day and he is by far and away my favorite bassist to my favorite band. LZ RULES!

Thankfully I never got the Christmas plus birthday present thing as a kid. I've foregone presents for either event for so long I can't remember the last time anyone got me something I wanted for either event. I just buy what I want when I want it. I do however get the occasional new pair of gloves or scarf... wallet... socks and underwear type thing under the Xmas tree. I take joy in buying for my kids and don't want them "wasting" their money on me.

I know, I know... bah humbug!

Also Cap. January 2.
Not so much with the backyard birthday parties. Were one to be wearing knickers, they would surely be frozen off

CLOSE!

I had to do it, done deal.
More details when I get home.

View attachment 2474828

Awesome! So happy for you!

 

[PillO]

Holy Crap! What a chatty bunch! I was away for a few days camping and I am struggling to catch up. Well, won't happen before I leave again...

Well my strings FINALLY came in… sorta. BassStringsOnline actually sent me a 5er set at the price of the 4 string which is AWESOME of him. I brought my 7ender to a local guy today, took some photos and video before hand. Gonna try to get a hold of the really well known guy just outside of town to bring my white TBird to. He's going to be a lot more expensive but I'm hoping he won't be half in the bag when I show up.

Just before I left, BSO delivered a bunch of strings (not actually in a bunch, but in individual packages). I will take the NYXLs off the white thunderbird to see how Black Beauties sound. If that works out, the red Jack Casady may end up getting a set of Red Devils.

Kat - have you ever given thought to just cutting a wood block to the size of a bridge pickup then putting it in the pup cavity and covering it with a chrome pup cover and trim ring to match with the neck pup? Would look perfectly normal and probably really mess with the minds of bass/guitar players as they try to figure out how your control layout works.

I would do a step further and add a couple of extra knobs (not connected to anything). I would then twiddle those knobs asking the tone junkies what sounds better.

 

[JJR58]

what did you trade it for?

case included with either? $299 starting price in that condition from a Sam ash is pretty good. Mine was quite chewed up, but came with a case. Final price $200+ slash wah I was trying to get $75 for but nobody was biting. He wanted $300 and agreed to $250. No regrets about the burst bolt on I had sold for the majority of the cash put into this. Neck through and USA pickups are the way to go for sure.

the pickups are part of that equation too, 1+1=3 sometimes, neck through plus the Gibson USA pickups knock it out of the park. Im glad I went there, even if the good deal I got seems to.have been matched or exceeded in your case (however since I sold my bolt on private party for $175 including fender bag, I took less of a bath there). Like T said, that's everyone's bird! The bolt on epis are decent, get the job done, but the classic pro is the way to go. I don't think prices will drop too low if it is truly being replaced by the vintage pro, since the classic Pro represents the bird we saw many of our rock and metal gods playing, the 80s-90s-00s+ bird, same.design, same pickups, can't go wrong. All I need is a gibson tr cover for tribute band image, or to fool future bands who are epi haters and care about those things.

No case. Condition of the bass is great except for some ever so slight scuffing on the top edge of the headstock.

 

[hillerup]

No case. Condition of the bass is great except for some ever so slight scuffing on the top edge of the headstock.

Pretty typical for a bird...

 

[BklynKen]

Lots of advice on this thread about neck adjustments. I like my action very low so I might as well jump in with what has worked best for me... something I clipped from TB some time ago and modified heavily that has proven to be spot on for all my Gibby needs.

Do this...
1. Loosen the strings to a slack setting then adjust your truss rod to create a slight back bow. From a dead straight neck position it might take two or three 1/3 clockwise turns. BTW, it's clockwise as seen from the headstock end of the bass looking down the neck towards the bridge.

2. Next, lower your bridge until the rear of the bridge is just off the body and the front of the bridge is about 1/8" higher than the rear.

3. Bring your strings up to tension and tune each string (don't worry about intonation yet).

4. Now check your action around the 15th and higher frets to see if it's comfortable for you without any or too much buzz (some players don't mind a little buzz). Don't worry about buzzing in the lower registers at this point. Raise your bridge as necessary to eliminate unwanted fret buzz in the 15th to end of fretboard area but always make sure the front stud is keeping the front of the bridge at least 1/8" higher than the rear of the bridge.

Note: the saddles on the 3 point bridge are specific in height to each string to ensure the strings match the FB radius, they are sequentially numbered so check to make sure each one is in the proper position. Also note that it is much easier on you, the studs and your stud inserts to slightly loosen the strings before raising the bridge height. Yes that means you'll need to retune after each adjustment. As an alternate, you can start step 4 with the bridge in a higher position and keep lowering and tuning until you get the level of buzz in the 15th and higher frets that suits you. Just be sure to always keep the front stud higher than the rears.

5. Now you've got your bass retuned with a lower action at the high frets. Your lower frets will now either buzz (see 6a for the subsequent steps) or the action will still be too high even in the low registers (see 6b for the subsequent steps).

6a: Low Register buzzes: You need to loosen the truss rod. Take off the truss rod cover and insert an allen wrench in the allen nut (the cheaper Epis generally have allen nuts). Don't detune the bass for that, rather lift the A and the D string to the side to the slots of the G and E string to have room for turning the allen wrench. With the bass' butt resting on your toes and the strings/fretboard facing away from you, you - while standing up and looking down - will now turn the allen wrench counterclockwise maybe 1/3 of a turn and immediately look to find out how the action of the bass has altered and buzzing has become less or disappeared. Don't be scared of overdoing it - it is impossible to break a truss rod by loosening it as you are releasing tension. That said, one or two "one third turns" counterclockwise should do it. sometimes you will need a few more of those to actually adjust the bass if the neck is too straight or even curved away from the fretboard (called back bow).

6b: Low Register has too much action: Same as 6a, except that you have too tighten the truss rod now which is done by turning the allen wrench clockwise. You will also have to be more careful as you can break a trussrod by overtightening it. When tightening a truss rod its best to slacken the strings a bit first, then make your truss adjustment followed by retuning and checking to see if your adjustment eliminated unwanted fret buzz.

7. After a combination of either steps 5 and 6a or steps 5 and 6b you should have a relatively or even totally buzz free bass with good to reasonable action. If there is still some persistent buzzing at some places then raise the bridge a little. Raising the front stud will raise all strings (remember to slacken the strings first then after raising the front stud retune the bass). Raising the treble side rear stud just a very tiny bit more may help the D and G string, or raising the bass side rear stud just a tiny bit more may help the E and A strings. The bridge does not have to be dead level but it should be very very close.

8. You should be done... but if you're still getting buzzing just on one string (while the other strings are buzz-free) and you have to raise the bridge considerably to make it go away even though you could stay much lower if it were just for the other strings, then double check you're saddles to ensure they're in the proper sequence. In a pinch you might be able to swap the D and A saddles but only as a last resort. If you still have unwanted buzzing then your low action expectations may be too much or you might have a string or fret level or neck hump problem. See step 9 for string checking. For fret level or twisted neck or neck hump or ski jump problems find a good luthier and see if they can fix the problem.

9. Occasionally it's possible to twist a string when installing a them on a bass. A twisted string can potentially have an odd oscillation that may make it vibrate in more of an elliptical pattern vs a flatter pattern. In some cases the effect is great enough to cause fret buzz on that specific string. To fix this, detune the string and starting at the nut pinch the string between your fingers and slowly slide down the string towards the bridge allowing the ball end of the string to spin as needed to eliminate any accidental twist you may have put in the string when installing. Once untwisted, hold the ball end in position and retune the string without letting the ball flip or spin. This should eliminate any twist related issues.

Edit: follow all the above steps in order. Don't skip steps or start in the middle.

Wow, thank you! Some of this will be a little easier in that I have a Hipshot bridge.