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Washington Redskins name

...I watched a documentary on the Native lady who has been leading the charge for all of these name changes....[snip] Only reason their name hasn't been changed yet is because they have the best lawyers
Suzan Harjo has been fighting this case for decades. I interviewed her a few years ago, and she put things pretty simply: "In Oklahoma, that was the name people called us when they were beating us up on the street." And that's what I convey to people who don't get the objection.

Her original case failed because the court believed she did not have standing, as she and fellow plaintiffs waited too long into adulthood to file suit. For this reason, current plaintiffs are young adults.

I've lived in DC for a long, long time--long enough to remember R******s Superbowl victories. It's an issue that you broach at your own peril. The name will be changed--it's a question of when, not if.
 
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As long as people keep believing certain words are offensive, they will remain offensive. What happens is a group is convincing me that one certain word that is offensive to them, should be offensive to me. Therefore I shouldn't use it or say it ever. But in reality, it makes that certain word more powerful in its effect and specificity.

But let's contrast my previous statement and put this in context so most people can agree on what's offensive regardless of ethnicity. If they were called the Washington Rapists, because apparently the term "rape" is nowadays used in video-game culture (as a term of victory over another). That's probably not going to make a lot of people thrilled. While I doubt they would want to promote the true definition of rape, they are reflecting how they define rape attempting to use it in a different context. The team itself isn't (hopefully) composed of actual rapists, nor supporting rapists, or purposely offending rape-victims. But I'm more than sure that name would offend people regardless for many reasons.

Think of it this way on a more individual basis. If I was getting beat up and the perpetrators kept calling me "Susan." Should I get mad at parents naming their daughters (or sons, if their fathers were Johnny Cash fans) Susan? Certainly not everyone knows how the name "Susan" is something I consider a derogatory term against me. And it doesn't mean all children named Susan are going to promote everyone else to beat me up again.

Am I offended by "redskins?" No. Would I use it in any other context than a football team? No. Do I know personally know anyone offended by the term redskins? No, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. Would I be offended if they change the name? Nope.
 
As long as people keep believing certain words are offensive, they will remain offensive. What happens is a group is convincing me that one certain word that is offensive to them, should be offensive to me. Therefore I shouldn't use it or say it ever. But in reality, it makes that certain word more powerful in its effect and specificity.

But let's contrast my previous statement and put this in context so most people can agree on what's offensive regardless of ethnicity. If they were called the Washington Rapists, because apparently the term "rape" is nowadays used in video-game culture (as a term of victory over another). That's probably not going to make a lot of people thrilled. While I doubt they would want to promote the true definition of rape, they are reflecting how they define rape attempting to use it in a different context. The team itself isn't (hopefully) composed of actual rapists, nor supporting rapists, or purposely offending rape-victims. But I'm more than sure that name would offend people regardless for many reasons.

Think of it this way on a more individual basis. If I was getting beat up and the perpetrators kept calling me "Susan." Should I get mad at parents naming their daughters (or sons, if their fathers were Johnny Cash fans) Susan? Certainly not everyone knows how the name "Susan" is something I consider a derogatory term against me. And it doesn't mean all children named Susan are going to promote everyone else to beat me up again.

Am I offended by "redskins?" No. Would I use it in any other context than a football team? No. Do I know personally know anyone offended by the term redskins? No, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. Would I be offended if they change the name? Nope.
Nope.
 
So what if the name were some other racial slur? Would any of those be okay?

The Washington N*****s
The Washington C****s
The Washington S***s
The Washington G***s
The Washington W**s
The Washington P**** M*****s

Redskin is a derogatory slur. Just like all of the ones I listed. None of the others would be allowed, so why allow Redskins?

I think this post pretty much nails it. No other ethnic group would be okay with a professional sports team adopting a derogatory slur for a name. So why should Native Americans? Because they were wiped out through tribal warfare, by the US Army and illness that they were unable to deal with? I don't think that's good enough. Native Americans deserve just as much consideration and dignity as any other ethnic group.

Dan Snyder doesn't want to rename the team because of money. He perceives a great financial value that is associated with the team name and logo. But guess what? The team can still have some of the same colors, traditions and history with a new name. Other teams have changed names because times and perceptions have changed. The NBA's Washington Wizards used to be called the Washington Bullets. People in DC saw the name in a negative light since the city has a problem with violence, and the NBA team didn't want to perpetuate that image. Hence the name change.

Snyder can certainly make money off of a change in the team name. Why? Because ultimately that will lead to more revenue from the new logo and team name on licensed merchandise.
 
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Suzan Harjo has been fighting this case for decades. I interviewed her a few years ago, and she put things pretty simply: "In Oklahoma, that was the name people called us when they were beating us up on the street." And that's what I convey to people who don't get the objection.

Her original case failed because the court believed she did not have standing, as she and fellow plaintiffs waited too long into adulthood to file suit. For this reason, current plaintiffs are young adults.

I've lived in DC for a long, long time--long enough to remember R******s Superbowl victories. It's an issue that you broach at your own peril. The name will be changed--it's a question of when, not if.

Susan Harjo! Thanks for the life of me I couldn't remember her name, and I haven't had the time to do much searching because work is getting in the way of my internetting :D
 
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I knew a guy who ran a store, he told people he was Jewish - he didn't like being called a Jew.

I think Redskin's in the football team context is a historical reference but not a highly derogatory one at this time in history. Many Native American's use it like some(not all) African American's use - you know.
 
The NBA's Washington Wizards used to be called the Washington Bullets.
And all will be great until Wizards (or Whizzards) becomes synonymous for guys who use date rape drugs. Gay people used to be happy. I suppose we should rename those little potatoes that are so good with some butter and dill, or in
potato salad too.

I
don't think changing that team's name will help the perception others have of Native Americans or their plight. In the big picture I think the fact that they were so badly treated will be forgotten quicker as those small cultural fragments are wiped clean. That said, I think the battle to force them to change the name is invaluable as it will prompt many to ponder the history rather than forget it and wipe the slate clean.
 
It is my understanding that they were originally named in honor of their first coach, who was a Native American. In other words, it was meant as a show of respect.

The one that bothers me is the Cleveland Indian logo, which is an outdated characature (sorry, spelling). The Washington name personally does not bother me.
 
IMHO unless your fully Native American I don't think it's your place to say if the names offensive or not.

Just because there are other names like Yankees or the Norte Dame fighting Irish doesn't mean it's ok.
Exactly. I've never bought the comparison argument.

If there's a team called the "Detroit Darkies," am I not supposed to be offended because there's a team called the Fighting Irish?
 
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I am as un politically correct as they come but I think it should be changed.
It is a slur name and what makes it even worse is that the team represents our nations capital.

+1 The tradition in American sports is to give the franchise a cheesy nickname having something to do with the city. If I were from DC I would want the team that represents me to have a more dignified name.

Kind of like the GA flag. It never bothered me but I could see why some people found it offensive, so change it. Just a flag, just a team name. In a league featuring the Indianapolis Colts and Arizona Cardinals they can't really claim to be bound by tradition. Change the name, logo, sell bunch of new merchandise, profit.

New name? Washington Deficits? Bipartisan Bickerers? K Street Krooks? Sound Biters?

I like the Deficits. That's perfect.

It's not that I don't care. It's that there are much graver issues out there than a football team name, which actually ranks very low on the scale of importance when you think about it.

If it's important enough for you to post in the thread, it's important enough for you to care enough to back up your opinions.

It is my understanding that they were originally named in honor of their first coach, who was a Native American. In other words, it was meant as a show of respect.

The one that bothers me is the Cleveland Indian logo, which is an outdated characature (sorry, spelling). The Washington name personally does not bother me.

The sole reason I always root against the Indians is their their logo.

1393645725000-wahoo.jpg
 
It is my understanding that they were originally named in honor of their first coach, who was a Native American. In other words, it was meant as a show of respect.

The one that bothers me is the Cleveland Indian logo, which is an outdated characature (sorry, spelling). The Washington name personally does not bother me.
There was an article posted earlier that disputes that story about honoring the coach. They claim that the coach lied about being a Native American to avoid the WW1 draft.
 
We have a neighborhood in DC called Swampoodle: The name had fallen into disuse for many years, but it's enjoying a mild revival.

I vote DC Swampoodles. It's historical, it's local, and it will make for awesome mascots. Done.
 
Suzan Harjo has been fighting this case for decades. I interviewed her a few years ago, and she put things pretty simply: "In Oklahoma, that was the name people called us when they were beating us up on the street."

This issue got me thinking when it first came up, because that was the name of the team at my high school, since changed. It never had any negative connotation I remember. My experience is that most white Americans I have met will proudly acknowledge Native American in their genealogy.
When I got into a band where the drummer was 1/2 Comanche, his mother was from Oklahoma ^^^ (quote), I asked him his view. He said whenever he heard Redskin it had stinkin' in front of it. I can see the point. Other guys in the band would make stupid "how" and Indian chant remarks and sounds and he took it well, but I chose not to .
We have reached a point in time of hypersensitivity on these issues. Even as a Northerner living in the South, I have seen that it is a lot more constructive and neutral to talk about cultural differences on a positive level and accept them, rather than bloodlines or wars our ancestors may have lost. Respect always has a positive effect.
 
My experience is that most white Americans I have met will proudly acknowledge Native American in their genealogy.
Darn straight we do - it give us a nice *** tan. Being all/part NA is kvlt. I'll admit after this thread I'm thinking they could change their name - "Washington Braves" and they could keep the caricature logo."